CAP AOE Shadowlands

Why was this enabled in the game?

That was never a problem, it was fun.

But there at the MDI they do the dg all at once.

It’s still not a problem.

4 Likes

We’ve definitely heard a lot of feedback from players that bursting down larger and larger pulls has become an overly dominant tactic in much of the game. This is particularly evident in questing and dungeons, which has made it difficult for many classes to find a clear role.

While there are a number of variables contributing to this trend, high burst area of effect (AOE) damage against an unlimited number of targets has made it increasingly possible for players to take down large groups of enemies without the players ever facing a proportionate level of danger. In Shadowlands, we’re looking at changes that would broaden the field of tactical options, and in the process, more clearly differentiate the strengths of classes in a variety of AOE situations.

For example, we’d like to see Outlaw Rogues or Fury Warriors excel in situations with 4 to 5 targets in close proximity to each other, while ranged casters like Frost Mages or Affliction Warlocks perform better in sustained damage against groups of 5 or more targets. To accomplish this, we need to revisit the maximum number of targets that many abilities can hit (also known as the ability’s “target cap”), and adjust them accordingly. In situations where a target cap doesn’t make sense, we’re adding a new kind of damage falloff that causes the damage done to each target to be reduced gradually as the number of targets increases.

Most players who are used to fighting 3 to 5 enemies at a time will notice very little difference with this approach. On the other hand, players who are accustomed to pulling 10-20 enemies at a time will experience longer, more threatening engagements. Sustained AOE damage may become an equally viable option in that situation, but both approaches will put significantly more pressure on the group to survive.

1 Like

33 Likes

In short, we are too lazy to balance, let’s nerf everything.

4 Likes

Seems like your mind was already made up so why ask about it? You asked why, I quoted what they said.

6 Likes

Still interesting how they left some specs with uncapped AoE and those specs basically took over M+. I don’t think they handled it well.

11 Likes

Either that or they didn’t handle dungeon design.

1 Like

It was also in part because of the Prideful buff in S1was basically a steroid so the uncapped AoE specs basically had none of the “threat” they spoke of.

Also didn’t help how even in the absence of the Prideful buff the specs with uncapped AoE were basically unkillable with their survival toolkit, so basically all you needed were some healer CDs on the tank and bam everything’s dead.

Edit: I say “were” but they’re still pretty much the same even in season 2, lol.

Yeah they essentially blew their entire reasoning for the cap out of the water with that.
Whoever came up with the idea to cap AoE and then implementing it this way wasn’t the brightest of bulbs in the Blizzard box.

2 Likes

because casters weren’t being picked for M+ over melees with uncapped AOEs :expressionless:

If they wanted to limit aoe, they just had to add more of those mechanics that reduce aoe damage or hurts you more. They also went with this shhh the expansion that sees torghast and then they doubled down putting a timer on it. You want to pull more to meet the timer but are punished for doing so.

2 Likes

As a spec with a decent uncapped AoE I do find it requires more of a setup to get going with it than my other classes. I’m VT-Fade pulling 4 mobs, then going searing nightmare past three mobs packs while I’m channeling mind sear along with a number of other conditions depending on the amount of mobs.

I can’t comment on the other caster classes but it does end up evening out.

It’s a tactic because you need to be able to kill the mobs before the timer runs out. You are not going to time many of these keys if all you do is pull 5 mobs or 1 group at a time on every pull. The experiment failed. Just uncap aoe already. Even the new co president has voiced “uncap aoe”. Pulling 2-3 groups at a time and seeing numbers all over the screen is fun. This company needs to stop trying to destroy fun.

2 Likes

AoE is sustained now, which is different. You could nuke down a pull inside of a leg sweep in BfA, that same pull now requires kiting and defensive cd’s and different classes. Bursting down 5 packs vs sustain aoe down 10/15 packs is the choice now.

They also changed dungeon designs, added more lieutenant mobs and more dangerous trash mechanics to make pulling huge like that harder to pull off. Overall, I think they addressed the feedback.

Who do you think complains louder? The group that wanted more strategies in m+ or the group that wants to go back to AoE spam? Hard to say. Only blizzard know.

My guess, is they get that list of player random complaints out, and go eeny meeny miny moe, ok lets mess with this one, and see how they react :laughing:

As a SP your only uncapped AoE are: Apparitions, which you don’t really control, they just fly out from your character as you DoT stuff, mind bomb is uncapped but does no damage, and Psychic Link pales vs Shadow Crash in AoE.

It’s hardly the spec to look at when you’re trying to assess the difficulty of an uncapped AoE spec in getting their damage off. Most of the specs with uncapped AoE only struggle as far as finding a tank that can pull and hold everything.

In fairness, this was because of having access to unlimited Corruption on every piece from MOTHER.

Overall I feel the SL dungeons are slightly easier for M+ than the BFA dungeons were (excluding S4 BFA).

Balance has become worse this expansion because there’s just so much to balance across 3 main playing formats (raid, pvp, and M+) & Blizzard has complicated things by throwing in stuff like conduits, covenants, soulbinds, etc. which just adds to the list of things they need to wrinkle out - but they can’t. Uncapped AoE specs are just better in M+ once the tank has the shards/gear to basically hold the pull together without an outright 1 shot. This is also why more people push on Fort vs Tyr, as it’s just easier to “abuse” the system with their specs.

I don’t disagree with the quoted Blizz post, or their reasoning for adding in caps, but I don’t know why they left some specs with uncapped AoE in.

1 Like

It’s because it’s not burst aoe. Sustained damage AoE is a different kind of animal. Basically all the bursts AoE was capped and recategorized as “cleave” instead. Balance seems a lot closer this season than in any season of BfA. We see more group comps in the upper echelon, which is nice. Some specs definitely “win”, with things like the earthquake build for ele shamans, but that’s nowhere near as egregious as eye beam or beast cleave last season.

It could be better, but I think they moved the needle the right way. Mostly, the top groups aren’t pulling the entire dungeon anymore, it’s more about doing different sets of mechanics simultaneously, like pulling a mawsworn into a big pack, or pulling hard pulls onto a boss for more efficient clear.

That’s cool!

I mean Searing Nightmare is uncapped too :joy: and does big dam.

1 Like

The problem in their words (blizzards, not mine) is that it was the solution to everything. They wanted to tone it back so classes had strengths and weaknesses.

Looks like it turned out great. :confused: