Can we please have the old Vanish back

Seriously de-couple the need to use Vanish as an offensive cooldown, it feels absolutely awful and counter intuitive.

You cannot use Vanish in the open world as a DPS cooldown,
You cannot use Vanish in Delves as a DPS cooldown,
You cannot save Vanish to use as a DEFENSIVE cooldown in all other relevant content.

I don’t understand why it was even remotely made an offensive cooldown, the only offensive cooldown usage it used to have, was aggressive CC in PvP, which was actual depth to the ability, then comes along subterfuge and ruins it all.

Pro tip Blizzard, literally give us the ability called Subterfuge:

Subterfuge
1 minute cooldown.
Allows the use of stealth abilities for 6 seconds
Does not stealth you.

ps. remove killing spree
pps remove the severe rng of rogue all specs.

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I only ever use Vanish to get a second opener (or to run away from a fight that’s turned bad) so hearing it described as a DPS cooldown is weird for me.

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It’s a staple to Crackshot build.

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I just looked it up, that’s nuts lol

(I don’t play Combat that much so I had no context, sorry!)

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Yes you can…that’s what Brann is there for.

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That is if he doesnt die right away after pulling agroo.

Regardless, Vanish has no business being a DPS CD.

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Honestly works half the time, either he dies or hes there and the mob decides to reset.

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It seems to work for me every time, fwiw

The point of the thread still stands, its not something any rogue should have to deal with, and no reason to have this issue even be an issue, every other class gets the attention, why are rogues getting the deaf ear.

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I preface this with an agreement to everythin overall, but simply explaining how to subvert a lot of this, because you can in fact use Vanish in most of these situations.

You need to hit a training dummy to get the timing down, but there is a window between the server recognizing the use of Vanish that you can instantly hit an ability before it resets things. It’s a small and finnicky window that you have to get used to, but Vanish doesn’t incur a GCD. You can hit abilities the millisecond after it is used.

Tricks on Brann. It’ll work most of the time, but he’s prone to dying with the changes from last night if your gear and his level are too low. Also, there are specific enemies that refuse to redirect aggro, but they also tend to hit you through vanish with spells without truesight as well. So there’s that issue they need to fix.

Yep, though in keys or raid, they keep designing a large chunk of bosses to see you through Vanish if you’re engaged in combat, so it’s basically useless for over half of bosses. Soothing darkness and the leech from stealth is also so utterly useless with the changes that stealth basically isn’t a defensive utility anymore.

Enemies also seem to be doing the Vanish ignore thing lately, without truesight indicators. Just another buggy stealth interaction.

They ran out of ideas for rogue during the talent system redesign, and just started throwing stuff together that was half-used in Shadowlands. It’s why we kept FtH and GSW, as well as most of the shadowlands skills (give outlaw Flag back).

This resulted in them coming up with one idea, which they blanket applied and have just been hammering down on since, despite half of us hating it.

It isn’t even a choice, which is the worst part. I could understand if it was a choice with a like… 5-10% loss in DPS, but just losing Crackshot alone for GSW is a 20% loss. Not including the loss of UHUH if we don’t hard talent into subter, which also blanket ruins our rotation as we can’t upkeep ADR and become energy starved. It’s wonderful.

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Subterfuge is a bit too basic of a name. How about we call it something more edgy instead? Something like “Shadowdance”.

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That is the best suggested idea ive seen here since forever. Wow, this is going to fix rogue for sure.

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I am begging for a viable alternative to the Crackshot build

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I wasn’t saying it was going to fix rogue, the thread is specific to Vanish and Subterfuge :thinking:

wont happen… this game is balanced to be boring !

Ten people liked the APM race to nowhere, so of course Blizzard doubled down on it by making the most obnoxiously broken cap stone in existence.

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