Can we do something about Mana Rift and Arcane Mages?


(Failedwizard) #12

I’m sorry you left your brain cells by the door but a good Druid will not just stand there reapplying hots while the Mage keeps stealing them, refer to my comment above where I list ways to counter Arcane as a Resto Druid. Let’s keep in mind that Resto and Arcane counter each other with the Mage being able to heal off the Druid and the Druid being able to cut off Polymorph affecting them with their forms.

My highest rating is nowhere near 1200 below 2.7 but if you’d like to carry on thinking that rating is a permission slip to spew lies and ignorance on the forums then you are living proof as to why rating means nothing to intelligence and being correct.

That supposed 2.9k cr Arcane Mage who was suspiciously nowhere to be found on the ladders was flat out playing Arcane wrong and was being carried by his teammates, ignoring Arcane Blast has never been the correct way to play Arcane in BfA for absolutely anything.

And just remember, a nerf to Spellsteal’s mana won’t change a thing, we’ll just take Time Anomaly and carry on the same as now anytime we get matched against a Resto Druid team.

I made an entire thread 5 months ago in the BfA Items and Classes forum detailing a rework to Arcane to fix its incomplete state - https:// us .forums.blizzard. com/en/wow/t/my-arcane-mage-wish-list/14387


#13

Yeah I’m sure it was a healing issue, not a class/design issue in the tourney setting also when the win condition was oom’ing a team.
Definitely a healing issue. smdh


(Wolloolloo) #14

Tbh, I much more annoyed by Mana Rift than Spell Steal spam. At least I can have a lot more drinks against an Arcane Mage. Last night, around 21xx mmr, I fought a team that their only objective was to OOM me: they were overlapping all kinds of ccs to make sure they were able to land 100% of mana rifts. Was stupid to the point where they were using 2-3 ccs in sequence, DRing everything they have, just to make sure I couldn’t get out of the Mana Rift area, once MR was off CD, they setup again because the CC DR was over as well.

I managed to drink once and had my innervate removed by the DH in a heartbeat (I had full hots + innervate but, idk why, is always the damn innervate that gets removed). We, of course, lost once I was completely dry and their resto shaman was sitting @ ~70% mana.

It’s an extreme toxic ability with very little to no counter-play that affects ALL HEALERS, not only druids, because doesn’t matter how good druids are in squeezing drinks, is almost impossible to do so with a DH chasing you.

Mana rifting will hurt your damage? Really? I have a screenshot back home (I can post later if you want) of a DH doing almost 15kdps while rifting me every time his stuns were off CD (usually Fel Eruption into Imprison, if I running Relentless).
I agree with you, a DH will have to trade some good talents to do this, but on a meta that mana is the most critical resource to any healer, this is a very easy decision that will easily create unfair win conditions, don’t you agree?

Do you realize you just proved OP’s point by writing this, right? You are saying that a mana-drain type of ability that has basically no counter-play in a meta where mana matters more than anything is okay and the problem is a “healing issue”?


(Trafficz) #15

an arcane mage will oom a rduid much faster than a mongoloid-ing dh ever will

both are disgusting but what do you want them to do?

the only reason to bring a dh is to burn blue bar

remove it fine but you have to give them something in return because they are garbage tier without it


#16

Such is my fear about maining a DH, one nerf like that due to mana complaints could make havoc useless in arena


#17

As an arcane mage myself, you cannot remotely think arcane is in a healthy spot in PvP or PvE. This whole expansion arcane has only been good with high damage partners- and only been strong verse double melee/rdruid healers due to the spellsteal and kiting it has at it’s disposal compared to the other two specs of mage.

The mana issues only further amplified arcanes niche to a gross amount. But you take away arcanes niche and it suddenly is very weak again.

I am basically saying- if you want to nerf spellsteal on arcane which I agree should be changed in a healthy way, you’d have to compensate the spec in some way. I for one think arcane is in need of an overhaul/rework, but I doubt blizzard would ever consider it this expac. Also, I agree; mana rift should be removed and in it’s stead should be their artifact ability as a talent choice.

TLDR: Arcane hasn’t been very strong in PvP minus versing melee cleaves and rdruid teams. The mana changes and rdruid inflation has only amplified this to where it’s now a relevant and apparent issue.


(Thelle) #18

The problem here is you decided to drink Pepsi and not Mt D


#19

At that point you’re pretty much just a gimped WW with no MS.


#20

Sarcasm, my friend… Sarcasm. Mana rift is terrible and I love my dh. Hated mana drain abilities when other classes had them, hate it now.

I vsd a dh the other day… Didn’t have to land 1 kick, his pve rotation was terrible but he was able to land a few rifts and oom me. His “MANA RIFT” spell was better than my lfg random I played with.


(Katyperry) #21

MR is pretty lame and scummy in my rat league games, can’t even imagine the tilt higher up. Unpopular opinion(?): Let us banish players again.


#22

My biggest problem with mana rift, other than how stupid easy it is to use, is that the game is completely out of your hands as a healer once the DH starts using it.

It becomes entirely dependent on how your DPS plays and whether they can end the game or not before you go oom from the unpeelable DH mashing 123 stun rift.


(Dillon) #23

Yeah the thing with mana rift is it puts your team on a timer to win but with the current meta game pace is so slow you’ll never win under that timer basically

If there were kill conditions it wouldn’t be as big but good luck every getting an early win against a DK/DH/Rdruid when that’s pmuch nearly impossible.


(Wolloolloo) #24

Fixed for you as I’m pretty sure Cdew will be running this comp on his Shaman.


#25

i think arcane mage is the highest skillcap caster (and spec) in the game so I don’t really have a problem with it.


(Dillon) #26

Shaman or Rdruid would be the viable options ya, shaman would likely win vs rdruid in the matchup because of purge spam now - any other healer in this comp is pointless though because you need someone who can’t possibly die so MW can also be a liability even if good on paper


(Wolloolloo) #27

Because of the changes on the dispels costs across the board, I think we will see a shift on the healers being played next week… what do you think?


(Dillon) #28

Still likely Rdruids but more Rshams, Hpals/Discs still wouldn’t be as good MW probably sometimes ok in some situations and loses value now over Rshams in others

Dk/DH and DK/WW would be better now in general, destro comps are the only ones that really got weaker (and still just as good vs non heavy physical comps).

At the end of the day game still is too slow, dps too tanky etc

I saw a SS of a game with the Move playing RPS on ladder into graycen and flop (WW/mage/rdruid). It was a 4 minute game and Wiz had 50 purges. Sterge had around 30.

I don’t know what is honestly a bigger sign of something wrong, the fact that they purged that much or the fact that a game lasts that long when being purge banged

I mean realistically it shows moreso that while purge mana cost should have gone down a bit for healers (and not DPS) it went down too much but also the reason behind low value for purge all inning before was that if you did it you wouldn’t kill.

For example if a disc priest team wanted to try to beat an rdruid by purge spamming… well he’d just be ooming himself and the rdruids team wouldn’t die then they’d just win by default so mana costs of stuff like purge weren’t entirely an issue with this game just the slow pacing

And because of this I still expect Rdruids to see heavy play but now Rsham more in some match ups especially some mirrors.


#29

what exactly makes dh so weak? i don’t play dh so i know nothing about the class, but with the utility they bring with dark and reverse i don’t see why they’d be so awful without it. they still do great damage and have solid defensives in low cd blur and netherwalk and can kite well. what else would they need to be considered viable? i see the lack of ms being mentioned but with the damage dh does an ms would be absolutely overkill, not sure why ww has one with the amount of damage they can do


#30

you lost your right to complain about other classes with you q’d with a prot warrior. also i see you’ve tanked 200 points since not playing with one, congrats!


#31

You’re trash stop. I queued with losero and thanorx to 2533 with WW/DK. Literally 200pts higher than where you play this season.
Lots of good ideas and thoughts bouncing around in this thread.
The biggest thing with arcane mages is if they play right they dont take damage in 99% of their match ups, so they just play to dampen. It’s incredibly obnoxious to queue into. Also good Arcane mages like Vultz and Mageiden don’t play off of the Rdruid. If you’re behind a pillar theyre with you. If you go in the open they sit the pillar and NT spam. If you run to another pillar they double blink sit there with you. They also seem to have some move speed bonus thing that makes them as fast as me in travel form. Incredibly obnoxious style of play. It seems like the game has devolved into who can play the most cancerous crap. Whether it be Destro/WW, Double Fire, DH/DK, or Arcane/Assrogue. All 4 comps are just super obnoxious to fight in the long term.
Idk the game just sucks right now. Cancer comps and then random DPS that think they can play my spec better than me without understanding Maledict usage or enemy kill windows make the game awful. I’m at the point where I only queue with the same two people and tell everyone else “no I wont queue with you cause I dont want to catch cancer.”