In a nutshell, they made him into a guy who would do anything for Denethor’s approval (instead of a guy Denethor was angry at because he wouldn’t do anything for his approval). They made him march Frodo and Sam halfway to Minas Tirith before changing his mind after they have an encounter with nazgul. Also, their changes to Denethor—making him incompetent, defeatist, and obviously mad—have the knock-on effect of making Faramir look worse for not standing up to him.
I am struggling not to launch into the whole rant, but basically, it’s easy to conclude in the movies that Boromir is the noblest, sanest, most competent member of his family, and that’s just plain wrong. I’ve heard all the arguments in favor of the changes, but they don’t work for me. And the extended editions don’t really help. They have a few good scenes for Faramir, but those are severely undercut by a scene where the Rangers savagely beat Gollum and he just stands by looking uncomfortable.
In the theatrical releases, the only suggestion of it is that they’re standing next to each other at Aragorn’s coronation. The extended edition includes a 45-second scene in which they talk a little while watching the troops leave for the Black Gate and it suggests that a romance is beginning, but there’s no follow-up to it.
It’s not just the struggle that’s a problem, IMO—after all, they showed it pulling on Aragorn as well in the scene where he lets Frodo go off on his own, but it didn’t damage his character. It’s the way they chose to portray it.
I don’t buy that because they completely cut the only temptation where we actually see what goes on in the character’s head in the book, i.e. Sam.
(I mean, I buy that that’s what they were going for, but not that it was the only way to make things work.)
Really? I don’t think I’ve ever seen that particular opinion expressed before. I can certainly see the argument when you include the torture scene – I agree that the extended edition scene there does Faramir no favors. Just never seen anyone formulate it before. (Warning: I am not a Tolkien-head or anything, my sample is not going to be representative, esp. to someone who is more involved in the fandom). But the only reason to watch the EE for me is really the Scouring of the Shire.
Internals in movies are very difficult things. I don’t recall the books well enough to be able to discuss this particular point in more detail than that.
I think where you’re coming from is totally reasonable and valid, I just wanted to frame up the situation in general terms.
Ah he’s back at it again. I don’t get paid enough for this. Just gonna pull out the good ol’ lawn chair and wait for him to explode in his own hypocrisy again.
Maybe you haven’t heard it in those exact words, but I’ll bet if you think about which character is remembered more fondly by the fanbase you’ll see what I mean. Audiences are genuinely gutted when Boromir dies; the best they feel for Faramir nearly dying is pity. (And at every screening I went to, they actually cheered and clapped at Denethor’s death, which is a whole other rant …)
Boromir, in the movies, is also the only one of his family to welcome Aragorn as king, since they inexplicably cut the whole “healing hands” thing after the Battle of Pelennor Fields. Even the extended edition only shows Aragorn healing Eowyn, not Faramir.
I defer to your interpretation of the common audience reaction simply because I am really not a Tolkien fan – no disrespect to the work, but it’s not especially for me. I have had limited exposure, certainly less than you. But most of my discussions around Boromir in the movies have been (including when I saw it for the first time with my friends) “wow, what a jerk.”
It was only on later re-evaluation that my friends decided “well, he was a pretty okay guy, just not up to the moment.”
Faramir doesn’t get ‘cool guy’ points but he got a lot of ‘sensitive woobie’ points with the more het girls I know.
I’m basing my perception on a lot of online discussions, but I admit those are probably mostly with people who are at least familiar with the books. So it’s interesting to hear your perspective.
And there should be just soooo much more to Faramir than “sensitive woobie.” Sigh.
Just remembered another trilogy that I love and rewatch endlessly:
Oceans 11-12-13.
I liked Oceans 8 too and am sad that it doesn’t seem set to have any sequels. I think it got caught up in the backlash toward remakes-with-a-female-cast that happened after the 2016 Ghostbusters, but I don’t think it was fair in that case. The original guys had already said they weren’t going to make any more movies in their timeline since Bernie Mac died, so it wasn’t replacing anything. And there just aren’t enough good heist movies out there.
He seems that way in the movies because they cut out his moment of temptation from the books, and that’s my complaint. They claim they simply had to change Faramir to make the ring seem more dangerous, but they turned around and negated that by making Sam immune.
Besides, Sam’s temptation in the book is fascinating, as it’s the only time we actually get to see that situation from the POV of the person being tempted. It offers him glory and power, giving him visions of leading armies and being known as “Samwise the Strong”—things that Sam doesn’t have much trouble recognizing as “not who I am and not what I want,” which shows how the natural humility of hobbits helps them to resist. I think it actually would have been pretty easy to put that onscreen and I’m baffled as to why they cut it out.
Ocean’s 11 is one of the many entries in my list where I like two movies a lot (love them, in fact) and don’t particularly care about a third, so I struggle to call it my favorite trilogy.
Ocean’s 12 is okay but it’s nowhere near as good as 11 and 13. I’ve watched 13 in particular so much. I cannot emphasize how much that is a big deal – I very rarely rewatch movies, and I’ve probably seen Ocean’s 13 about a dozen times.
Yeah, I agree that 12 is the weak link, but it has enough fun character stuff to get me through it. That scene with Robbie Coltrane is hilarious, for example.
I do recommend Ocean’s 8. I like the fact that they chose a heist that wouldn’t have made any sense for the regular cast to pull off—stealing a legendary diamond necklace from the Met Gala. (Also, no way is Danny Ocean really dead. They basically tell you not to believe it.)
I hope I don’t come off as too ranty.