There is something I want to say but I am restraining myself from saying it. Particularly in reference to this comment
And these
Because I find it a bit hypocritical that you are basically calling me illiterate when you yourself mistook ‘polar opposite’ for ‘counter’.
Thanks.
So, back on topic, at the end of the new questline, the Ashbringer is not 100% corrupted as in the original timeline, it is now “Sanctified” and switches from corrupted to normal while you use it, all thanks to the sacrifice of Alexandros Mograine.
Welcome. It seems like Ashbringer is fighting with itself. One half wants to right things and return back into it’s corrupted self so things can proceed as normal, while Alexandros sacrifice is preventing it
Unless I missed something since I haven’t really done SoD
Dropping this here for now, I’ll go watch footage later for details: https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/how-to-earn-the-legendary-corrupted-ashbringer-season-of-discovery-phase-8-376517
Not sure how I feel about the Scarlet Monastery event being moved to a different point in the timeline. That would seem to break continuity with the main timeline if it occurs at this point.
Thanks for the link!
So in this timeline, the Ashbringer is reforged with the power of Nordrassil and the Well of Eternity. In the end is the own “Will of the Ashbringer” what switches the sword from corrupt to normal.
[SoD spoilers ahead.]
Based on this article, there are a few things right off the bat that conflict with the comic/established timeline. I’m not playing SoD, so I may get a few details wrong here:
Alexandros is present in the SoD (and vanilla) Naxxramas raid. According to the comic, Darion killed Alexandros and freed his soul before the player raid occurs, in which case Alexandros canonically wouldn’t be present in the player raid at all.
In SoD, Caldoran is present in Naxxramas and ends up with Corrupted Ashbringer after the raid. According to the comic/retail timeline, Darion had Corrupted Ashbringer at this point. (Is Darion anywhere in SoD?)
In SoD, the player acquires Corrupted Ashbringer after a series of quests. Alexandros’ spirit is in the blade. According to the comic/Chronicle, the First Battle of Light’s Hope takes place before the player raid, meaning Alexandros’ spirit was already freed and not in the sword at this point in time.
In SoD, the player witnesses Alexandros’ spirit pop out of the sword and slay Renault, just like the vanilla scripted event. In the comic, this happens before the player raid, and with Darion in place of the player. And again, Alexandros’ spirit wasn’t in the blade at this point according to comic/Chronicle.
Assuming SoD is supposed to be canon, Darion somehow needs to get Corrupted Ashbringer back before the Second Battle of Light’s Hope.
Lore-wise, this is a bit of a mess.
Most of the points you listed honestly could’ve been avoided if Darion was present in SoD’s vanilla Naxx raid, replacing his father.
As for the scarlet monastery event, idk have Whitemane bring back Renault. If she can resurrect herself from death, I’m sure she could do it to Renault. So Alexandros has to do it again.
Why she didn’t do it for the MoP version of Scarlet monastery idk.
However there is still the option of either making this whole questline non-canon (as they did with Atiesh) or bits and pieces are. Such as the Scarlet Monastery RP event could be considered “non-canon” and it is only present in the questline as fan service.
For option 1, the canonical version could be a different character reforges the ashbringer or Darion himself does it just before the DK starting experience formally begins.
Thanks for your post organizing the main points!
This is why SOD needs to be an alternative canon, if not, then the lore will be a total mess.
The Ashbringer plot is just the tip of the iceberg, in almost every phase Season of Discovery has been telling a very different story wich contradicts itself with the original lore.
Yes, this is a bit of a wrinkle. The comics gave a possible explanation in that Whitemane isn’t present at the monastery when Darion shows up with the corrupted Ashbringer looking for help, as she had just left with a squad of Crusaders to provide reinforcements to Hearthglen. We don’t know if there was a time limit on how long a person could be dead before she could no longer resurrect them, but if there was, Renault probably would have been dead for a few days before she could get back to him. Or, perhaps decapitation was simply beyond her abilities to remedy.
Side note: I hate that we’ve not gotten any interaction between Whitemane and Darion about what happened to Renault. The Scarlet Crusade probably blamed Darion for Renault’s death, even if they believed any possible witnesses who saw Alexandros’ ghost. Darion showed up wearing Argent Dawn gear and carrying the corrupted Ashbringer, and escaped by stealing one of the Crusade’s horses, leaving his brother’s decapitated corpse lying on the floor of the Cathedral. He did testify afterward to what happened, so his side of the story isn’t a secret, but who among the Scarlet Crusade would have believed him? Even if they did, who among them wouldn’t blame Darion anyway for bringing the sword into Renault’s proximity?
I will say that it is odd that the RP event in Scarlet monastery is part of the questline because 3 other bosses from Scarlet Monastery (Vishas, Doan and Herod) appear in the Scarlet Enclave raid as undead. So that raises the question if players did do the Cathedral wing as well. If they did Graveyard, Library and Armory then surely the Cathedral wing is canon as well right? [I am aware that the answer is no, due to the Ashbringer comics]. Another reason why I think the part of the questline that involves the RP event is primarily for fan service.
Also it is not like we have had quests where we go into older content for current. Look at the Scepter of the Shifting Sands questline. Where we had to go back in BWL to get the red shard, even though BWL would’ve been cleared at that point. Lorewise it could just be we go back into BWL, not find the red shard on Vaelestrasz and conclude it must be on Nefarian’s corpse. How we missed that when we killed Nefarian back when BWL was current is beyond me 
Or how a Blacksmithing quest from Legion sends us back to HFC to kill Archimonde. Not to mention any quest that is part of a max level campaign that has us going into a leveling dungeon. E.g. Legendary ring from WoD and Archindoun. Or the Pride of Kul Tiras questline and Shrine of the Storm, Waycrest Manor and Tol Dagor.
I’ve combed through the Twitch footage of the quest line, and the Wowhead article is missing some vital details. There’s a lot of new lore implications to sort through. Short version: Either the entire quest line is non-canon, or SoD is an alternate timeline, or we’re getting some heavy changes to the canon. The quest line is irreconcilable with established canon as we know it from the Ashbringer comics, Wrath, and Legion. Moreover, this is not a mistake, as characters allude to a strange feeling that something’s not as it should be.
The primary quest giver for the quest line is a spirit called “The Will of the Ashbringer”. This spirit, which is the one that sacrifices a glimmer of Light at the end of the quest in order to sanctify the blade, is explicitly not Alexandros. It is an echo of him, having the appearance of how he was in life, complete with Silver Hand gear, but it is not him, and indeed has independent motivation from him. Upon pressing further about what this echo is, the spirit says “This is how the Will of the Ashbringer prefers to remember him so this is the form that was chosen for me to manifest to you.” Also, this manifestation is seemingly independent of the core artifact at the heart of the weapon, as it first appears when only the hilt is in the possession of the player.
The basic rundown is in order to even have a chance at cleansing the blade, it must first be reassembled, and then Alexandros’ cursed spirit must find peace. The Will of the Ashbringer hopes to accomplish this by giving Alexandros the chance to confront Renault and forgive him, which is the reason for the Scarlet Monastery event making an appearance essentially verbatim from Vanilla (complete with Fairbanks saying there’s another Mograine in Outland). As Alexandros is still connected to the corrupted Ashbringer for the entirety of the quest and is still cursed, Darion’s sacrifice to redeem him has evidently not happened (more on that later).
After Renault’s death at Alexandros’ hand, Alexandros (still cursed) makes his way to Naxxramas, somehow independent of the blade which is still in the possession of the player. The Will of the Ashbringer asks the player to confront Alexandros and stop him from causing any more harm, as he is intent on resurrecting the other Horsemen. The Will of the Ashbringer teleports the player to the Four Horsemen’s boss room, where the Spirit of Mograine waits in the middle of the platform, looking almost exactly as he does in the Naxx raid, except for one detail: he doesn’t wield the corrupted Ashbringer, even as a ghostly echo, instead wielding what appears to be Mograine’s Might, Renault’s two-handed mace. He thanks the player for returning his blade as he attacks, and a long fight begins. Over the course of the confrontation the spirits of the other Horsemen appear and begin casting spells at the player, while the Will of the Ashbringer is casting some sort of Light-based spell periodically (couldn’t see specific spell names in the Twitch footage). Eventually at some health percentage Alexandros returns to the platform and the other Horsemen cast some sort of shield on him, and at that point, a transparent figure that bears the name and appearance of “Scarlet Commander Mograine” appears on one side of the room and starts slowly walking towards Alexandros. This spirit, which wields the original, uncorrupted Ashbringer, casts some sort of Light spell upon reaching the platform and says “Begone!”, dispersing the three other Horsemen. Renault then repeats his last words (“Forgive me, father! Please…”) and strikes down Alexandros’, who says “This changes…nothing…the cycle…continues.” Renault then turns around and walks away back towards the direction he came from; he does not disappear as soon as Alexandros does. The Will of the Ashbringer then finishes up the quest, sanctifying the blade with the glimmer of Light while saying: “It is…done–for now. I can feel this form…beginning to fade. Thank you–[class name]. The blade…remains corrupted but…perhaps…there is another who can…In the meantime…keep it safe.”
I don’t see how any of this can possibly fit with the previously established canon events. Aside from the timeline of events being wrong, Maxwell Tyrosus is also rather involved in the quest, and his reactions to events don’t make sense if he’s already witnessed Darion’s death and everything that led up to it. However, he also learns too much to be as ignorant of some things as he seems to be at certain points in the Ashbringer comic. Unless the new lore is that he was holding out on information when talking with Darion (which would cast a rather unpleasant light on Tyrosus’ character), the quests just don’t fit anywhere.
Now, as for Darion, he’s not mentioned by name, or even that Alexandros has another son aside from Fairbanks’ old Vanilla comment. However, there is this interesting video that was put up today by Slack, who did the quest line playthrough that Wowhead covered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ12VWI3R1A The “Curious Troll” is very clearly Zabra Hexx, who kicked off Darion’s quest to save Alexandros in the Ashbringer comic. While he doesn’t use Darion’s name, he mentions having seen in his dreams “a boy standing alone against the darkness, pointing the blade at his very own heart.” Zabra’s other comments hint at the timeline being a bit wonky, so I’m inclined to say that this is an intentional deviation away from the established timeline, though perhaps one that will merge down the line like so many Bronze Dragonflight shenanigans. I also took note that both the Will of the Ashbringer and Zabra essentially tell the player that they’re only temporary caretakers of the blade, hinting at it eventually ending up in Darion or Tirion’s hands.
The regular Cathedral dungeon wing can still be canon without conflicting with the comics, thanks to Whitemane. It’s canon that she was able to keep resurrecting herself and others up until the MoP revamp of the dungeon, so the obvious solution to keeping the original dungeon canon is that she brought back herself and then Renault after the adventurers left. It’s canon to the comics that she was away from the Monastery when Darion visited, so she wasn’t around to save him that time.
Hmmmmm. This part is probably the most interesting. Maybe the infinite dragonflight is up to something in the shadows and that is why this takes place instead of the events of the comic?
We do have two examples of how entities time traveling altered the main timeline. The War of the Ancients and of course, the Dawn of the Infinite Mega-Dungeon.
Some key changes between the original version (WC3 manual / Chronicles vol 1) and the changed version (WotA trilogy / Chronicles vol 3) include
Krasus (the older version) finds a clutch of Blue Dragon eggs that would’ve died out. He informs Nozdormu about them and Nozdormu decides to keep them safe. One might say this is what enables the Nexus War in Wrath
Nozdormu learns about the time traveling shenanigans and goes to investigate. It is strongly implied that this is how he learned about Moruzond and thus his own future.
Broxigor stalls Sargeras long enough for Malfurion and Illidan to implode the Well of Eternity. Broxigor has a memorial on Argus.
Malfurion and Azshara do not have their climatic battle towards the end of the war as described in the WC3 manual
Illidan fast tracks his learning of the Arcane thanks to Rhonin
And I’m sure there are others.
Hell our journey to it in Cata to steal the Dragon Soul also made some changes. These changes in the long run were either minor or they were self corrected once Nozdormu lost his powers after Deathwings defeat. One notable change is that Deathwing never reclaimed the Dragon Soul (even if it was for a few seconds). In the novel, he claims it but the Old Gods overload it, forcing Deathwing to drop it. This is what allows Malfurion and Illidan to implode the WoE.
In the Dawn of the Infinite Mega-dungeon, Deios is successful in corrupting Proto-drake Nozdormu, changing the main timeline completely. With Chromies aid we go back in time. However instead of stopping Iridikron by giving Chromie a window to destroy the Dark Heart, we defeat Deios instead. Saving Nozdormu but allowing Iridikron to give the Dark Heart to Xal’atath. The most significant change during the post Iridikron boss encounter portion of the dungeon is Tyr being corrupted by the Infinite Dragonflight. In this altered timeline, Tyr never died in his climatic battle with Zakajz the Corruptor.
So maybe the Ashbringer comic follows suit. The original main timeline has it, but time travel shenanigans caused it to alter. Therefore Darions sacrifice happens much closer to the DK’s starting experience. Which honestly asks the question… who will raise him as a Death Knight in this altered timeline?
Looking outside SoD for a second, Timewalking, mainly the timewalking raids have a plot to them. Someone is giving aid to Pro Old God or anti-Legion beings.
Blackrock Depths (anniversary version): Dagran I is given the blueprints of Ironforge. Allowing an invasion of Ironforge from within.
Black Temple (TBC): Illidan is given an updated invasion plan for Mardum, the first half Demon Hunter starting experience
Ulduar (Wrath): Someone frees Yogg-saron from his chains by magically aging them. Vormu notes that these chains should have kept the Old God bound for another 40k years. At least until Cho’gall frees him sometime prior to Wrath.
Firelands (Cata): Ragnaros is given a time-locked cinder. The quest does not give us any information on what it means but it is bad. Vormu also tells us whoever is behind this is not playing around.
So I wonder if this same being is the reason why the Scarlet Enclave raid happens. I.e. prevents the events of the Ashbringer comic from happening, allowing Caldoran to claim the Corrupted Ashbringer from Alexandros when Vanilla Naxx happens.
Who knows, if Blizzard does continue with SoD there might be an instance where we go back in time and prevent all of this from happening. By ensuring Darion encounters Zebra Hexx. OR we encounter Darion, give him the Ashbringer and then he kills himself with it. Because reasons.
It also seems that the “Curious Troll” describes Tirion facing off against the Lich King at ICC. Mainly how he sees “an Ol’ Greybeard… begging da light for strength, one last time”
So yes, this is most definitely very much intentional on blizzards end. The fact that Zebra Hexx shows up and acts confused that is the SoD PC and not Darion showing up seems to indicate that there is more to this than we initially thought. Timeline shenanigans have occurred and not the “blizzard forgot X happened or they are flat out retconing shamelessly” kind like we had with Chronicles vol 4 in relation to when the Stormwind Stockade prison break happened. But in the WotA novel / DotI way I mentioned before.
I like the direction you’re going with in regards to outside interference. I will say that Baelin Caldoran’s entire existence is very suspicious; most deviation from the main timeline in regards to the Ashbringer and the Scarlets seems to start with him. He also sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the characters who feature in fate of the Ashbringer in the comic story. One of the things I like about the comic story is how interwoven the characters and interpersonal dynamics are, and Caldoran doesn’t fit into that at all, being an outsider to all those events while aggressively seeking to be the next Ashbringer. He has no respect for the history of the blade or its previous wielder, which the Will of the Ashbringer calls him out on. With the way he behaves, it’s almost like he knows what the original timeline was and is trying to take Darion’s place by getting to Naxxramas first.
Actually, on that note, here’s what the Will of the Ashbringer says in the very first quest while introducing himself (bolding by me for emphasis):
It’s not clear if he just killed them with the Ashbringer or if he did some sort of power drain ala Illidan and the Moonguard, but either way it seems Caldoran sacrificed other people, rather than himself, in his attempt to cleanse the blade, and it ultimately failed as a result. Darion only came to the conclusion that he needed to sacrifice himself after ruminating on the advice Tirion had told him and while in the heat of a desperate battle that they were losing; even Tirion didn’t think of that possibility when Darion asked him, and he was shocked when Darion turned the blade on himself. Why would Caldoran conclude that anyone needed to die in order to cleanse the blade? Even the Will of the Ashbringer doesn’t suggest that possibility to the player.
I wonder if they will play an angle where Caldoran is from the current timeline in “modern WoW”, was sent back in time somehow and tried to change the future where the Scarlet Crusade had the means to prepare, withstand and ultimately defeat the scourges invasion of the Scarlet Enclave. By ensuring they had the Ashbringer. The weapon that would shatter Frostmourne. But also other methods. Putress was the mastermind behind the Forsakens “new plague” after all. Which was developed first and foremost to be a weapon against the scourge. Hence why he was “recruited” by the crusade. Also using the light to resurrect the dead would allow them the means to deny the scourge corpses to raise. Thus depraving the scourge of their biggest asset. They can’t win a war of attrition when the other side also has an infinitely risen army. As seen with the proto-drake and the Reborn council encounters.
Sure the Lich King cannot be killed unless he is at the Frozen Throne, but deprived of Frostmourne, Arthas is just as powerful as a regular Death Knight. Hence why Wrath put such a strong emphasis on Frostmourne and it was the lore reason behind the Frozen Halls dungeons ultimately. Try and steal Frostmourne from the Lich King.
Basically view Caldoran as WoW’s version of Klesser from Infamous. But the key lesson in both these cases… One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it. By attempting to prevent a grim future, they instead path the road that allows it to happen.
Given that a SoD original character appears in Undermine and references their role in SoD makes me think that we will see more overlaps with SoD and retail. Maybe in Midnight we encounter Caldoran and he escapes through a time portal.
Now that I think about it, if Caldoran and the Crusade were successful in stopping Arthas at the scarlet enclave, then were would be no real reason to go to Northrend. Well outside of the Nexus War maybe. But there is a key individual that would love to see the Lich King defeated. After all, they had tried to ensure that happened in the past when a… friends servants aided a certain demon hunter.
Blizzard did say Dawn of the Infinite would not be the last time we see the infinite dragonflight.
Thank you for this! This is very interesting, so Zabra Hexx confirms this is not how it should be, not how it happened in the original timeline. He even tell us “Maybe this time, however, things be different? Who knows… who nows…”
I will update the OP with your information <3
This is not the case, in Season of Discovery Caldoran has a backstory. He was one of the paladins who followed Arthas in the Purge of Stratholme and there he kills Leonid Bartholomew (the undead of the Argent Dawn) and his wife. So at least in this timeline Caldoran has a long story.
Or that is what he wants you to think!
/10cha
Spoopy Music Plays
But in all seriousness. I am still sticking to the theory the Caldoran is a time traveler, he just traveled back a little further back so he could create a backstory for himself.
It just seems too coincidental that he was basically gathering every asset that could counter the scourge invasion of the Scarlet Enclave. The Ashbringer for Frostmourne, Putress for the Forsakens new plague, which is anti-scourge and finding a way to raise the dead via the light. Thereby denying the scourge any possible corpse from fallen scarlet crusaders.
We’ve got a lot of time travel in WoW right now so fully fits.