I’m interested to see how this pans out for PvP players, since most of us are Herald at the moment.
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Really?
Even though it buff spenders by 15% (up from 5%)? 
That’s a 30% increase in damage for FV which recently got buffed by 20%.
I was just thinking this.
That being said, I just woke up from a nice 3hour nap to see this. It’s always good to get buffs as opposed to nerfs.
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This has already been mathed out by one of the mods in the pally discord and its still no where near competitive to templar, its still 10-15% behind
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Not enough I know, but not dead for the purpose of Heroic and M+ up to 11s.
No
That’s just a number that was thrown half-haphazardly on the discord.
That’s just not accurate, you need to sim it.
I just did and increasing all the damage source for Herald by the buff mentioned I come up with a 5-6% below Templar on ST with the Mythic+ build.
That’s way better than the 18%-20% I used to get.
Now maybe it was on his character, I don’t know.
But it was already 15%-20% behind, those buff are too substantial to only be a 5% increase.
At least on the sim I used, it shows being 5% behind instead of 15%.
Admittedly, I didn’t take DH on Herald and instead took EL since there’s not reason to pick DH in ST with Herald.
The things they are buffing are quite obvious to scale through a sim, it’s not enough but it’s much more manageable than it was.
If you’re competitive I doubt you’ll use it to do content that challenges your limits.
I think that, for people that struggles to maintain or use DH with Templar, Herald is now a safer bet to get your damage whilst Templar retains better damage for a better execution and management of your resources.
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Yeah. That number can’t be right. I mean right now before the buffs, Herald is already about 15%-ish behind Templar. No way it’s 15% behind AFTER these buffs. Someone pulled that number out of their derriere.
Now THAT makes way more sense. A 5%-ish difference may not really matter to most people if they love using Herald. That’s definitely manageable.
My very thoughts on this matter. I mean, let’s get real: theses are some serious substantial buffs to Herald. I believe Herald users are gonna be happy with this. Or at least somewhat satisfied. Especially PvPers.
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I still play Templar, it does exceptionally well against those who are unaware how to play the game. You should know.
We will see but it doesn’t seem like these buffs are enough because Divine Hammers turns Templar into a powerhouse.
Oh, no question about that.
I’m just saying that these buffs to Herald are not insubstantial at all and if there is a difference, the damage gap should be far closer now.
That’s not really a matter of opinion.
That’s just really tedious math.
Templar is ahead but its on the conditions that you can maintain DH to a certain level.
You can easily loose that edge if you mismanage it.
Herald requirement is really not hard to maintain in 1 target scenario.
I mean, it really isn’t hard too. Once you get to 25 percent haste, you have very good uptime. But yeah I really want Herald to just be on par with Templar.
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What do you think about my suggestions, I’m sure that would help tighten the gap.
The buffs seem solid, the only issue is we need a way to apply Dawnlight more consistently!.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
Yesss! This is what I’m most excited for. I feel like it could be overkill in PvP with how much damage Ret can actually do sometimes. But I’m excited to see it happen for a bit lol. If it’s just really the Dawnlight passive damage for PvP it probably will just help with overall damage, and not really be too crazy with like, actually making Paladin burst overkill. So it probably will be completely fine.
People are saying the buffs are still meaningless in PvE. shrug I dunno. It’s better than the sad chasm between Herald and Templar we had before this tuning! I’m ecstatic!
it still lasts 8 seconds, instead of lasting the whole dawnlight
the big brains cooked up numbers and herald is still somehwta 10-15% behind. granted buffing it by large amounts again just leaves room for the same issues to arrise again in the near future when another templar interaction is found
but ya know, herald good on mythic mugzee i guess cause empyeran hammers are hitting immune adds :)))
i know this is probably hours before our convo on the discord. i was at work but just to have it on the public record. yes its not dead for heroic or m+ weeklies. you can play anything in that content and still perform good if you press buttons good.
but its still 10% behind and frankly that would be a “choice” for anyone to eat that much of a steep loss for any content
i will say this tho
if dh didnt exist and tier didnt exist. herald will curb stomp templar rn.
idk who told you it was a 10-15% gap. it was a 30% gap with bis profiles
Damn!
It’s been so long since I played Herald that I forgot about this limitation.
Yeah, looking at this again from your perspective, this right here is a serious drawback on Herald. Without a way to extend Dawnlight like we can Empyrean Hammers with Higher Calling, this is a band-aid at best.
A good band-aid, but a band-aid nevertheless.
Yeah, this mere 8 seconds is gonna be the core issue on why Herald will fall behind Templar. Blizz needs to address this.
Good call, Arahgon.
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Yeah but that’s a bug, reading gleaming ray it clearly states that the effect is there while a dawnlight is active.
So the spirit isn’t to limit it to 8sec.
We’re gonna need blizz to take a look at it.
Because if the sims takes into account it only works for 8sec over 5min then I’m not 5% behind Templar for my character, I’m probably something like 3%.
Again supposing it only works for 8sec and thats how the sims calculates it and assuming blizz fix it.
Like, who has BIS profile in game as we speak?
I get and recognize it might not scale as well making the gap at bis still substantial.
But at 666 it’s roughly a 5% difference for me, not withstanding the bug.
Herald will be best pvp spec tuesday easy.
40% dawnlight 15% spender plus tier set and how easy dawnlights are applied… herald will be best pvp spec no question.
We are back to 11.0 s1 when herald ewas the only viable hero spec. Templars hol is still doing s1 numbers.
This is just dumb… why couldnt you just fix HoL damage. 5 HoPo 30 secind cd 1 minute for actual damage (which is still nothing) and its not like we keep divine hammers up for procs easily in PvP.
I hate herald. Glad its buffed for ppl who like it but i dont want to be cornered into it to be viable at high ratings its just nit fun for me or my playstyle.
Give it a boost to do at least a consisten 3m-4m? With all our procs up.
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Same I dont like herald at all.
But the buffs are enough to make it better than templar. Templars “nuke” is not nuking and herald with the previous spec buffs tuesday will be the best. Sad
Is not used in pvp you get cced once and its done. Shouldnt be balanced around the pve power of dh in pvp
Divine Hammer is a bad ability and it’s suffocating Templar. Without it, you guys would actually probably have a nice juicy buff on Templar Hammer of Light.