Bring Insanity Drain Mechanic Back

The funny thing is that I never once said I want it back. I do, but all I was trying to do in this thread is try to help you understand why people don’t consider the Voidform playstyle represented in the current talents after you said it was great that you can pick Voidform or Dark Ascension.

Nobody is disputing any of the historical issues you’re raising in the slightest, but you keep raising them as if nobody is aware. We’re aware. But just because something was a problem does not mean that it was inherently a problem and couldn’t be fixed. An overgrown bush can be dealt with in a variety of ways, but Blizzard chose to start with uprooting Voidform because they can’t even pull together a coherent vision with enough time for the art team to update particles from 2004 when every other class has had most or all of their effects updated once or twice by now. Fixing Voidform was too much work for them because they look at priest as a problem class; a chore they have no interest in, but are required to address. Just look at how much dev interaction priest gets compared to any other class.

Voidform is gone because fixing it would have taken effort Blizzard isn’t willing to give to priest.

I never said that old Void Form playstyle was represented. You are arguing for the sake of arguing. And it’s pretty clear you haven’t once bothered to read or comprehend anything I have actually said.

Yes it absolutely was. When you have a spec based around an infinite “high” phase, you MUST balance it with a low phase. The stronger Void Form gets, the weaker base Shadow must be by contrast. And it’s not just Void Form and Shadow Form. It’s every single ability, insanity generation, cast time, and raid mechanic too. They literally had people cheesing Mythic raid content by stacking Surrender to Madness shadow priests to skip entire phases in Legion.

And it’s just so frustrating to hear people act like this is some easy and plausible thing to make happen. It’s not. How Legion Shadow managed to stick around is a mystery to me. We have something currently that works, works very well, and makes sense.

I don’t know of a single particle left for shadow priests from 2004. Mind Flay had a visual update, Mind Blast has a visual update, Shadow Form had a visual update, Void Form was an entirely new visual. What particle did they leave in from 2004? Please dear God for once in this ENTIRE THREAD SAY SOMETHING OF SOME SUBSTANCE WITH A TANGIBLE STATEMENT SOMEONE CAN NAIL YOU DOWN ON. Because you’ve said literally nothing but gibberish ranting with zero actual statements. You haven’t named any abilities other than void form, you’ve quoted no damage values outside Void Form, you’ve given no examples for any claims, you’ve not quoted a single patch number. Nothing. You just complain and rant.

Fixing Void Form would have taken a level of effort no one would be able to do. That’s what you don’t seem to get. You have this imagined idea that it would have been so easy to resolve, or at least you seem to think you have the actual answers. It’s an example of people that think they are more capable than they actually are. And it’s a pretty terrible argument to say that the developers are too “lazy”. If that’s the best you have to offer there’s no reason to continue talking.

The rework sucks , it made me quit shadow.

Cool. I like it, and it made me want to come back to playing retail.

Lazy, incompetent, malicious—call it what you will. It’s not a terrible argument because it’s the truth. If you don’t see the stark contrast in the quality of Shadow and other spec’s reworks, then you’re the one that’s delusional.

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You bought that ugly Cthuluesque mog lmao it’s so boxy lmao

Devouring Plague, Vampiric Embrace, and Psychic Horror (if it existed) particles are from 2004. Dispersion, Shadow Crash, Echoing Void, Inescapable Torment (particles), and Void Spike are from 2008. Dark Ascension, and Mind Spike are from 2010. I don’t remember SWD getting its particles updated at any point so those would be from 2006, but I’m not as confident on that one. Shadowfiend and Mindbender are enemy models from 2006 and 2010 with a dark purple transparent effect on them.

I, in fact, never said it would be easy. I said it would require effort. I did propose two approaches that could have been used, but suggested no actual fixes because I don’t have them and it’s not my job to have them. I have been very critical of Blizzard’s approach to the spec and class, but I have never once said that I have the answers - only that nobody does have the answers because Blizzard put zero effort into finding those answers.

I’m glad you like DF shadow; I think most people also mostly like DF shadow. Even though it has deep problems that Blizzard refuses to address, most people discussing those problems are level-headed about it even when in disagreement. Meanwhile you’re over here appealing to authority when it suits you (Voidform was problematic), disregarding that authority when it doesn’t (Voidform and Shadowform don’t stack), and saying people who feel differently than you are just spouting incoherent gibberish that isn’t valid because they don’t have exact damage numbers or patch numbers?

How do you expect people to take you seriously when you’re constantly moving goalposts and sealioning?

I’ve mained ret / shadow for, Forever ever and I can vouch for this. The ret rework everything we thought we wanted and more. The shadow rework , everything we thought we Didn’t want and less.

Anyone that just dismisses things they dislike with current design as lazy, incompetent, or malicious are literally not worth discussing or talking to because that’s not an argument based in logic or reality, it’s just an argument from feelings. And if that’s your stance you’ll never look at anything rationally and nothing will ever be good enough.

So not all models from 2004? Let’s continue to move goal posts. Devouring Plague never had particles and neither did Vampiric Embrace, unless you are talking about the little casting effect? But that’s just a spell casting effect. Psychic Horror did not exist in 2004, it was not introduced until wotlk. The Shadow Crash particles for Shadow Priests is not the same as the Shadow Crash used by mobs in wotlk so that was a visual update when it was made into a priest spell. Void Spike isn’t even a priest spell, it’s something the Idol of Yogg Saron uses. There’s not really any particles for Mind Spike either. Why would they need to update the visuals on Shadow Fiend? They added a glyph that lets you use a sha. And Mindbender is from a more recent expansion too. Are they supposed to completely rework every single visual effect every expansion? Seems to me like the visual updates for a large number of the other spells you didn’t mention suggests that they do make updates, and the fact that it’s not all from 2004 but from several different expansions also cuts into your argument. I think you’re just phishing for things to be mad about for the sake of being mad.

So then you don’t know the level of effort that can be put into it, the level of effort that was put into it, or that it even can be fixed. If you don’t have any solutions, how can you be so positive that there ARE in fact solutions? Because not everything can work.

Old Void Form design not working is an objective fact, you not liking that shadow form and void form not stacking is either a subjective complaint or you’re once again misrepresenting what I have said. Not everyone that disagrees with me is spouting gibberish but you certainly were. I can boil down the majority of the complaints against me to “We hate Blizzard because they suck and are lazy” which isn’t an argument, it’s a tantrum. You’re perfectly fine to think Blizzard are lazy and incompetent, but if you think that why in the world would you want them to go back to a terrible design they couldn’t make work in two years of content if they are so lazy and incompetent? If I thought a game studio was lazy and incompetent I would want them to make the smallest, most limited changes and keep the class in a state with the ability to do the largest amount of content. Which is DF. DF is the first expansion since they introduced M+ to the game where I have felt Shadow was able to both participate in and compete at ALL aspects of the game (pre 10.1.7 nerfs) and that was a godsend.

Literally never moved a goalpost because you’ve never made a statement with any basis to it. You’re just here to vent and rage without bothering to actually think on your points. That’s pretty clear by the fact you kept saying “They are too lazy to update 2004 particles” and then when pressed on it all of a sudden it’s actually particles from 2006, 2008, 2012. And you don’t even know when some of these spells were added to the game, OR even what the particles were. It’s ridiculous. And the reason I am so frustrated by it is that this forum is a bunch of people that are reacting based on feeling and bias and frustration without bothering to really think out their points. If your stance had been “I liked Void Form playstyle, and miss it, and it would be cool if it would come back” at least that’s a consistent point, stated from a place of feelings. I’d still disagree for the reasons above, but this whole argument about Blizzard incompetence and belief that the form could be saved is silly. For two years people argued on these forums whether if could be saved or not. I was one of them. I was firmly in the camp of save Void Form. I was also wrong.

I’m not going to bother arguing further. Quit suffocating this thread with your opinions stated as fact when it is clear you are in opposition of OP.

Moving goalposts again, I see. I never said all the spells were from 2004 or even that every spell with old particles is from 2004 - just that they’re from Cataclysm and earlier when every other class has had their particles updated once or even twice since then. Devouring Plague is our most powerful non-cooldown spell and its particles are so ancient and bad that the only way you know it was cast is by watching your insanity go down.

Claiming the devs are lazy is not only the definition of opinion stated as fact, what benefit do you think is going to come out of that? Who exactly are you asking to make these cahnges? If the devs are too lazy and incompetent to do what you want, why are you asking them to do this now? And why would they listen to feedback that calls them lazy and bad?

Yea you did. You also suggested that other classes had their particles updated. And so did Shadow Priests. In fact the first major particle overhaul WoW ever had was focused on updating Mind Flay and other channeled abilities. I’m sorry that you think every single particle needs to be updated, but you also don’t even know which abilities were added in what expansion and which ones have particles to begin with, so it once again seems more like random blind anger than coherent criticism. Is there something particularly wrong with shadow’s particles? Do the textures not work? Are they using out of date assets that are clearly not aligning with current visuals? Because to me they all look just fine and match. Nothing feels out of place with them.

The thing that is wrong with Shadow’s spell effects is that there are none. Mind Blast, Mind Spike, Shadow Word: Death, and Devouring Plague have no clear animation. Yes they have an animation, but it exists on the target instead of coming from our character.

I’m not sure if you have watched a Shadow Priest play besides you, we look like a crazy person waving our hands in the air. The only truly visceral animation we have is Shadowy Apparitions, and those are invisible to other players. And while it is humorous, it is also quite sad that we have deviated from being the most aesthetically pleasing caster with Voidform to the most bland.

Does it need to be? There’s also no travel time for those spells. And while travel time isn’t really a thing as much these days, it was how those worked before. And yea, it’s because we’re not casting something from our character, we are attacking something inside the enemy. We’re not conjuring ice lances from our fingers and flicking them at people, we are causing mental anguish in the mind of another. It does not bother me, and is honestly one of the more unique aspects of the class.

That’s an opinion you hold. I don’t have a problem with that. I find shadow priests more than anything visually appealing. And I don’t need other players to see my shadowy apparitions for that. But this is also a different argument. “I would like to see more travel based particles” is not the same argument as “They are lazy for not updating the particles”

Because one is art design and direction, and another is a lack of consistent content update.

Does it need to be? No. Regardless I find the aesthetic of Shadow degrading with losing permanent access to Voidform levitating and tentacles, losing access to Void Bolt, and being forced out of Mind Flay.

I saw a very clear direction for art and design of Shadow during the Legion rework, and have since then seen a complete lack of direction for both. You may think it intentional, I don’t.

I’d be down for having there be a glyph that adds the tentacles and levitation of Void Form to Shadow Form while in combat. I definitely don’t want Lingering Insanity back though.

I also think there’s room to having Mind Flay brought back up to compete better with Mind Spike. And is a lot simpler of a change than reworking the entire class.

But what other major visual updates to older specs and spells has happened since Legion for anyone else either? It’s not a shadow specific problem, it’s that the largest amount of reworks and new spells came in Legion. And it’s a “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it model.” I STILL remember the wave of complaints when they made Mind Flay into a fancy swirling channel instead of the blue squiggly line of death. It’s also a “You can’t please everyone” scenario too. Current shadow feels comfortable and familiar to me as someone that has played the class as long as I have. I don’t feel confused and offput coming back to it. Unlike what it feels like trying to pick back up my unholy DK. I feel lost and confused trying to play that again.

You are correct that many of the spell animations have not been updated since Legion. Legion was a period of concreting the design of many specs, designs which have persisted into Dragonflight. Shadow is the exception, which means that any changes in Legion have been lost, including animations.

So yes it makes absolute sense that you would feel confused playing another class post Legion, because that class’ design was solidified in Legion. Shadow is easy to to grasp because all modern design has been reverted to an older era of the game.

No, I said they added spells with outdated effects with no time for the art team to update them, which they did. Devouring Plague was reintroduced in Shadowlands with…wait for it…particles from 2004.

It only seems that way because all you do is willfully misinterpret everything as blind anger. Or maybe that’s how you truly read it, but I’m not sure which of those is less productive.

I mean, aren’t all the design assets still there, just not the gameplay loop? They added the tentacles in to Void Form when it’s active and the floating, Mind Blast got that black enemy visual in Legion I think. And I played in Legion and BFA. Even having done that, UH DK feels… weird. Like there are pieces of it that, but there’s a whole lot more.

But this is just my experience with it. I definitely enjoy the current gameplay myself, and I like being able to participate in all types of content. And that’s something I wasn’t able to do back in Legion and BFA with the old Shadow. It’s certainly not perfect, but I don’t see the same issues here. For me I feel more frustrated with Shadow Crash and our recent nerfs.

Permanently floating and casting Void Bolt pales in comparison to doing it every 2min. Or never, if we are considering next tier where Dark Ascension dwarfs Void Eruption with the set bonus.

There’s never been contention with wanting to participate in all forms of content. Those that enjoyed the Voidform playstyle aren’t saying we want to give up that option, instead we think that is a problem that can be solved that was never attempted.

That being said, just as it isn’t fair for those who enjoyed Voidform version of Shadow having it stripped away with no compensation, it wouldn’t be fair to force Voidform into the current design of Shadow which is why splitting Shadow into Shadow and Void spec is being proposed.