For anyone interested, this was the survey I referenced. What it clearly shows is that the playerbase is VERY split on something like this. It isn’t 100% in favor of PL or 100% in favor of ML. Not even close. In a situation like this, you MUST have options.
Whether you like it or not… This isn’t about progress (as they proved via math that it wouldn’t affect progress)… it’s about what the players want for their in game experience. Some people prefer control be directly in their hands, others prefer to find a group to build a structure with. You can not please both types of player with ONE type of loot system.
My guild has a hard time fielding an entire heroic raid team. I do some normal raid with them on occasion, but admittedly am not a mythic raider. Plus I said I’m not against having Master looter, so good job taking one sentence out of context. This thread is idiotic to be honest.
Tbh… this sort of attack isn’t helpful. I get why you say it, and it’s an easy thing to point out, but it doesn’t change someone’s mind. It just puts up their walls as you’re attacking them instead of their argument.
This isn’t a progression debate (math proves that incorrect), and it isn’t a skill debate. It’s a player experience discussion.
A significant proportion of the player base (increasing as you increase the difficulty of the content) enjoys a group based experience in regards to loot. That right there alone indicates that some form of group based loot decision should be returned to the game. Whether that’s opening up the PL trade restrictions or bringing back to ML or something new entirely. It doesn’t matter. More than enough people want it, and there’s nothing wrong with having it as an option.
It isn’t helpful though I can understand why people go there. Guy says well just trade the gear then. Anyone who raids knows a decent bit of the time that is just not possible to do when you want to and people wouldn’t be having these discussions if it was. It is hard to hold that position if you both know what you are talking about at all and aren’t trolling so people get frustrated.
No one is asking for ML in pugs, they’re asking for it in 100% guild groups (ie… a more stringent version of the Legion loot system… the system that no one complained about).
Not according to the post. Master loot was also abused in guilds. Did you play Vanilla or even Classic when it was released? It was a bad system that created favoritism and greed. Personal loot isn’t super great, but it’s much better than Master looter.
Read the thread then. Many things are abused in many parts of the game. Can’t remove them all. And if they are asking for it in pugs, then I agree with you. ML shouldn’t be available in pugs.
Whether you like it or not, you shouldn’t be dictating how me and my group of friends play the game. If we want to use ML, then we should be allowed to. I wouldn’t presume to tell you how to play? Why are you doing the same to me?
And no… I’ve never been on the LC or the LM in a prog guild. So no, I have no interest in “gearing my friends/GF/etc” or scamming people out of loot. I’ve routinely passed on pieces for the group when it was better placed elsewhere.
Classic didn’t have the requirements that Legion had in terms of who could use it. I saw very little in the way of complaints about GMs/LCs abusing it and giving people an objectively raw deal. I’m sure it happened here and there but I am led to believe it was more the exception than the rule. At the end of the day if your guild cultivates a terrible reputation, it is probably going to die and the people responsible for that will have a hard time getting into a new guild so people generally try to avoid that.
Read the original post. doesn’t specify guild runs. Your warped additional narrative has nothing to do with the OP’s original narrative. Therefore it is referring to either.
So you don’t want someone dictating how you play the game, but you also want someone to dictate how you get loot. That’s an enlightened opinion you have there. Good luck with that. Also, when did I dictate how you play? How does personal loot dictate your ability to play the game the way you want? Literally just said master loot sucked and it was removed for a reason.
They removed the ability for anyone to do that period. It was a win win. The RNG plays the same, you just don’t have people fighting over loot or hoarding it/giving it to their friends or themselves etc.
It plays within a couple of % in the long run over the course of an entire tier. It does not play the same in the first couple weeks when you are trying to get tier set bonuses on people. Mathematically optimizing our tier drops to create as many of the best 2 and 4 piece bonuses as possible would be way better than 2% better than what my team has with RNG.
Clearly people don’t see the QOL changes this game has added over the years. I spent months in classic trying to get a trinket from one boss. The system is that bad. You will also be getting the Catalyst Creation tool on Tuesday to craft pieces you need, and at Mythic quality if you have 278 pieces. It doesn’t get much easier.
It’s not an attack though. It’s stating their credibility or lack there of.
It’s more about people not understanding how systems work, then having experiences that aren’t actually what happened. There’s an old video from wrath where an old guy raged because he didn’t get an ax off of Marrowgar. He had the highest roll but the masterlooter at the start of the raid stated that anyone doing under xyz dps would not receive loot because they were a carry.
Long story short the ax went to another pug that was above the dps requirement and the old man lost his mind.
Now who’s at fault here? The old man didn’t understand the loot rules set forth before the first pull. He then says he was ninjaed because he had the highest roll but failed to understand the dps requirement.
These are the kind of scenarios that the anti ML ground are trying to say is wrong and that the old man was abused by power hungry MLs
So read the thread. And I’ve already stated that I agree with you in regards to pugs.
Yes, I would like to dictate my experience in the game. I’m not here saying that ML should replace PL (which would change the game for you). I’m saying ML should be an option to guilds again. You, on the other hand are cheerleading the side telling me how to play the game (by forcing me to use PL). How does PL dictate how I play the game? You mean by changing the entire dynamic of loot from a group based dynamic to a solo based dynamic that relies completely and entirely on a dopamine hit? That’s how…
And I’m responding that ML sucked… FOR YOU. It didn’t suck for everyone (not even close), which has been well established via Mr Robots survey of thousands of players… Hence why we’re arguing for it to return as an option. Not a replacement for PL.
