Simply put, there are different types of attacks, white hits (regular melee) and yellow hits (ability melee). Only white hits can be dodged but tank busters or any active use ability by a mob or boss cannot be dodged.
Therefore, if you are not stacking versatility, even though you might dodge more melee attacks, when you get hit by the tank busters you will take 20% more damage than another tank who has that versatility instead — and these tank busters are usually why tanks die.
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Additionally there is a conversion rate from secondary stat rating points into their corresponding percentages and then there is a global constraint on the total secondary stats due to stat budgeting for ilvl.
Given the conversion rate of mastery rating to mastery % compared to crit rating to crit %, you gain better returns on crit compared to mastery.
Furthermore, for 1% crit, the healing that you gain is more than the amount of damage you avoid from 1% dodge. And on a similar note, the damage you gain from 1% crit is more than the damage you gain from 1% mastery since on average, 1% critical strike is approximately equal to 1% damage (a very common approximation which holds true except for very powerful burst cooldown windows which isn’t relevant here)
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In essence, we want the overall mitigation and damage provided by critical strike and versatility because it will help us in both scenarios with lots of trash and against heavy tank busters.
Do you think warrior is still good without blocking ? And block is mainly to block white hits.
Is DRW of BDK a bad defensive cds ? It gives 35% parry chance, no damage reduction, no health increase.
What do you think VDHs and prot pally stacking crit for ? They don’t stack vers, do they die to tank bursters ?
So what’s wrong with dodging white hits ? What type of dmg do you take most in m+ ?
I understand what you’re saying but eventually it comes down to maths.
It’s basically a formula like this:
healing done (mastery build) - Damage taken (mastery build)
?= healing done (crit/vers) - damage taken (crit/vers)
Where damage taken ( i ) = white hits + yellow hits
So even though the white hits is smaller with more mastery, the overall sum is still larger than the crit vers build.
Were not saying that mastery doesn’t provide damage reduction, it just doesn’t provide as much value as crit vers
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I have pondered a high mastery build only for fortified trash weeks, but even then, even if you were 5% more survivable in those circumstances, it’s just not worth it compared to the value of crit vers since this will boost your dps too.
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Also there’s this thing called kiting so you can just have 100% dodge at any time you want
Furthermore a huge hole in the mastery argument is that for every second the mobs are CCed (AoE stun chains) you are straight up losing value compared to crit vers since you will be taking no damage at all but be dealing less damage because even though mastery provides attack power it’s less compared to the damage provided by crit vers
Everyone says this. But none gives a reasonable explaination why. All say because crit/vers reduces all type of dmg. Mastery does increase self-heal, a type of magic defensive. We have tank classes that don’t stack vers, they stack haste/crit for more defense against white hits. So what makes brew different to stack crit vers over mastery?
Bro you’re flying at a million miles an hour… slow down and re read my message.
There is an equation about how much each of the ratings convert into their respective percentages relative to the overall budget of secondary stats on gear.
Even though mastery and crit/vers both affect mitigation and damage, point for point, crit vers just amounts to both more mitigation and more damage
Assuming this is true. However, crit has self diminishing return, while dodge/parry/vers have exponential scaling.
For instance, if you have 0% crit, 1% crit = 1% more self heal (I make this roughly because of celestial brew doesn’t scale with crit, and but healing received does via celestial fortune). But if you have 50% crit, then +1% crit = +0.5% self-heal. On contrary, if you have 50% dodge, +1% dodge = + 2% damage reduction from white hits. Then why do you go full crit ignoring its diminishing returned value ?
How often do you kite? There are only 2 pulls that you must kite for the entire season, one in SV and one in Ara. Moreover, kiting slow down dps significantly.
The more often you have to kite, the more reasons to stack defense against white hits, isn’t it ?
Celestial fortune does affect celestial brew. Celestial fortune boosts all absorbs on you by 70% of your crit chance. So if you have 50% crit then you are boosting your absorbs by 35%
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So even if you’re dodging more, on those attacks that you don’t dodge, you’re getting trucked, and then you also aren’t able to heal up that damage as well because you lack both the self healing bonus from crit and also the healing bonus from versatility since mastery provides none.
Additionally, consider that extra shielding gained by the critical strike on celestial brew…. Not only are you shielded more but on top of that you are taking less damage so it dissipates slower, this synergy is powerful.
And as mentioned mastery does nothing against tank busters and so all that damage you take from getting trucked from that is not reduced by vers and again you don’t have any crit so it’s way harder to heal that off
I included it in healing receive. I don’t count it in crit heal.
Self-heal is a form of dmg mitigation after. You either fully heal the dmg you take or dodge the dmg you take. It’s literally the same.
Moreover, I am not arguing with you about crit vs mastery. You said crit mastery is bad, so I want to know the reason. All the information I got is a verbal claim “haste is a no no, and mastery is worse point by point”.
Prot pally, and VDHs stack haste/crit, do they die to tank bursters because they don’t stack vers? What does crit help them against tank bursters ?
Prot pallies used to stack haste mastery then all of the sudden when rank 1 prot pally claimed crit was better than mastery, then in one night we had a new trend of haste crit over haste mastery. A stat value just changed like that.
Do you really need an elaboration for that? But if you want to argue about something so basic like Versa x Crit vs. Mastery, it means that you only make stones between +2 and +6 and not pushing 10+ keys. Good luck then.
I’ll just tell you something: The brewmaster is different from all other tanks in WoW. He’s the most different of all.
I don’t think you actually want reasoning you just want us to agree with you.
One reason why Crit is good for paladins is because there is a synergy loop between critical strike increasing their parry chance, Grand Crusader, and Bulwark of Order.
More crit = more parry = more Avengers Shields = more absorbs, and the absorb is proportional to the damage so when it crits you have more absorbs.
That paladin changed the meta because he found out that the defensive and offensive bonuses provided by this synergy outweighs the benefits of being able to block more since you are just flat out absorbing more damage and also you can time that damage absorb relative to a tank buster so you can reliably absorb damage from that instead of just a measly block.
On top of that, now when he uses Word of Glory it will crit more often which is better self healing and responsiveness to tank busters compared to block from mastery.
It’s probably a similar scenario with vengeance demon hunter.
Parry is additive and dodge from mastery isn’t exactly strictly additive in terms of the value point for point.
For parry crit stacking it gets better the more you have.
I already posted it above but I simmed mastery myself to get an idea for it.
https://imgur.com/a/DWFojYJ
You can also just think about it at an extreme. If you had enough mastery to make 1 stack plus your base dodge give 100%, then at best you dodge half the time.
I see this said a lot on this forum, but I’ve seen Kate’s logs where she was doing +10 at 597 the first week M+ was out and has currently cleared the raid on mythic.
She is also the writer for our Raidbot’s sim APL, emallson and Sinzhu are both very good players as well and spend time running above +10 regularly and I’m fairly certain have also full cleared on Mythic as well.
Just because they aren’t pushing for title doesn’t mean they don’t play the class, Brew is what they love the most and they put an enormous amount of time and effort into testing everything and seeing what works the best based on game design and math for us.
I understand if you prefer Equinox’s discord by all means that’s fine too he’s a great player, I just don’t want others thinking they are just giving out information based on nothing considering they are constantly working to get us accurate and useful info.