Sucks for you that borrow powers is here to stay. It makes each expansion not play the same, and it is easier to balance around when things are not staying.
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I agree - but Artifacts were very popular though, people loved them. And once the RNG acquisition issue was solved, they loved legendaries too. So I think it’s possible to make borrowed power systems that people enjoy and find meaningful. Corruptions were a clear failure on Blizzard’s part.
This is like saying you can still use Manual Crowd Pummeler in TBC. Yes, technically you have it and can equip it, but your character will be useless if you do.
Having the set bonuses function, but on vastly inferior/uncompetitive gear we’ve left behind is not really “working.” It’s nothing more than the end of the borrowed period.
As noted above with Legion, I think it’s possible to implement borrowed power in a way that both the players enjoy (like in Legion, or with tier sets) without us having infinite progression that becomes impossible to design around or balance.
Buzzwords my dude
Issues like Unholy DK are a separate problem - namely, Blizzard not balancing classes during an expansion frequently enough.
And thus requiring borrowed power to be viable. My point stands. If Blizzard didn’t put the Flex Tape bandage of borrowed power and actually fixed classes then we wouldn’t be having these discussions.
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I don’t disagree with your point, but it’s not an argument against borrowed power. Legion HAD class balancing throughout the expansion AND borrowed power. It’s possible to have both. And I expect (hope) that Shadowlands will do the same.
When was the last time borrowed power such as a Tier 4pc bonus made up the vast majority of your DPS before Legion? I can think of a one spec example here and there, but not every spec all at the same time. Also, every time you had a situation in which a 4pc set bonus made up 40% of your damage it was considered a terrible situation to be in, and the community would be in an uproar about it. Arms warriors in WoD Hellfire Citidel I think would be one of those rare cases, and the warriors were not happy about it. It was considered a bad class design.
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I completely agree, borrowed power should not be more than… let’s say 20-30% of your character’s output. The majority should come from your class and skill.
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Legion still required borrowed power for DK to be viable. Blizzard has shown us time and again that they can’t balance so they take the Flex Tape known as borrowed power and use it as a bandage so they don’t have to fix the class. Look at how bad Shadow Priest got. It took corruptions for it to even be playable at some level. They then had to go and make some major fixes.
Blizzard cannot be trusted to balance anything at this point. Borrowed power systems like artifacts, covenants, azerite, essences, and corruptions are the temporary band-aid and people are sick of it. Tier-sets were fine because they did not make or break any classes. It only made them perform better.
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Unlike your Artifact weapon which has all its traits outright disabled.
Again : you’re just creating confusion, this is low rent trolling. You know what people mean when they say Borrowed Powers. You’re just trying to derail people’s attempt at providing feedback to Blizzard about a system that’s majorly hated by the player base.
Why are you doing this ?
Borrowed power is simple :
- Legiondaries
- Artifacts
- Netherlight Crucible
- Azerite
- Essences
- Corruption.
No need to over think this. No need to muddy the waters. Gear upgrades (including Tier) are not borrowed power.
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Well if you can’t trust Blizzard then what is your solution? Because trusting Blizzard is the only thing you can do except quit the game. I’m planning to stick around and give feedback.
Because whining “no expansion-specific progression systems!” is not feedback, it’s useless. You can hold your breath and stomp your feet, but we are still getting Covenants and Conduits. I’d rather give feedback to make those systems work, than hope in vain that we go back to 2006 definitions of borrowed power.
Of course it is. It’s not whining, at this point, it’s infuriating gameplay that’s just a rat race and a grind to do things we used to do with just gear farming.
That’s fine, we’ll keep saying it’s a bad system and then in 9.1 or 9.2, it’ll go away, like usual. Maybe they’ll learn next expansion.
But you see, now we know what you’re truly after : Derailing people’s feedback. You are trolling. Shooo.
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You are welcome to leave the thread anytime dude. Tier sets are borrowed power. Legion borrowed power was well-received. It’s possible and they’ve done it before. The sooner you accept it, the sooner we can give feedback that matters.
Here is the deal, I would say most people are giving Blizzard warning. That warning being this,
“We don’t like this path your going on, it’s not fun, and I have nearly had it with these kinds of systems. If you don’t change your direction I will spend my money on something else”.
It is feed back, it’s just not the kind of feedback you like.
You can hold your breath and stop your feet, but people are still going to give feed back on these systems that they are fed up with.
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The feedback is that covenants and conduits are bad and should be scrapped. Get rid of the stupid borrowed power systems and make the classes play well. The issue is they introduce stupid things that nobody cares/wants. All we want are classes that play well. That’s it. But instead they decide to introduce a convoluted system that is almost impossible to balance on top of the 36 specs they have in the game on top of PvP balancing on top of legendary balancing on top of M+ balancing on top of raid balancing. It’s getting to the point where Blizzard are just massive masochists that love adding extra work for no reason.
Make. Classes. Play. Well. Without. BS. Systems.
It’s as simple as that.
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Lmao I don’t agree with you so it is trolling.
Here let me teach you all a little something. The people who hate borrow power. They are silly. They act like that is the problem with the game, and act like that most people agree with them.
Borrow powers are fine, They belong in the game, always have and will.
The problem with Blizzard and wow has nothing to do with borrow power. It is how slow they are at tweaking numbers, and how long it takes for them to do even the most basic of changes to the game.
Blizzard has too much red tape, and even the content patches are not even close to what other mmos pull out now. Blizzard is too slow. That is the main problem with wow.
Anything else is just nonsense that the community wants to buzz word, or blame it on a “borrow powers”. Borrow powers lets you do temp changes to classes without needing to add it to the core of the game. If we had all the powers and systems from all expansions. It would be needless bloat.
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I find Covenants and Legendaries quite fun actually, though some tuning is needed. Conduits need a lot of work though.
No, since I’m intent on stopping your trolling dead in its tracks. You’re not going to derail the feedback on this.
Nope. I can still equip my Nighthold Tier and it still works just fine. I didn’t grind Tier power for it, nor do I have to grind tier power to keep using it. It’s not borrowed power, I still have it. It’s permanent power.
Wrong again.
Yeah, they do it by nerfing the bejeebus out of the grinding and acquisition and slapping down vendors with currencies to bypass all the RNG.
I don’t need to accept anything, because every time Blizzard caves, nerfs the grind to the ground and gives us a RNG bypassing vendor.
Why would I cave ? Not caving means nerfs and vendor faster.
Go troll elsewhere.
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Personally, I was deeply unsatisfied with Artifacts and was glad that they were going away.
There was a great deal of presentation that went into the Artifacts as well. Players like the power fantasy of wielding the Ashbringer and being the Highlord. I’m just not into the constant reaffirmation of how great I am, or telling me what my personal story is.
Ironically I think players liked them because they didn’t have to worry about choosing anything else. If you played Paladin, you had a choice of three Artifacts and that wasn’t it. You couldn’t decide that you liked the Doomhammer or Strom’kar weapons better, and go for those instead, which is essentially how Covenants work.
No, it’s trolling because he admits he wants to derail people’s feedback because HE doesn’t agree.
Like you troll here when you don’t even play the game. Shooo.