I do a bunch of “damage testing” on PVP dummies and my damage is ALWAYS higher as BM.
Everyone says SV is the only PVP spec that’s viable.
My ilvl is relatively the same with both specs. I have the proper traits for both. (2 445 az pieces 1 465 as SV) (2 465 az and 1 435 on BM)
So yeah sure, higher ilvl as pieces might help.
What am I doing wrong?
If you only have 1 set of gear your stats are probably better for BM if bm is doing way more on target dummies. As survival I’d say you need atleast 26%ish haste to make it feel smooth where as bm I dont think haste is as important. I could be wrong about the bm haste part. Hog, galavant and rethum are our resident bm players they will be able to give you more bm info. Traits are important as both too certain traits that is.
Pretty sure the target dummies dont accurately reflect the pet damage & mastery nerfs that take place when entering into arena. I can do relatively similar DPS on the PvP dummy as I can do against the “raid encounter” ones. However once I zone into arenas the damage I do is usually around 30-40% of what I can do to the dummy.
Average PvP dummy test = 60k dps
Arena = 18-25k dps depending on armor class and matchup
Also you say you have 2 445s as SV and 2 465s as BM, that 300 agi can really make a fair difference too. Also i think surv just has more utility than BM.
Net and diamond ice are incredibly strong for locking down dps in 2s.
If a DH is just sitting on your healer all game, what are you going to do as BM? Freezing trap will get dispelled, explosive trap is useless against DH, and intim has a long CD.
As sv you can just train the DH’s healer and net->diamond ice the DH on cd if needed.
I think it’s more about how much damage you can do + how much enemy damage you can reduce, OR how much burst you can do during a CC window.
Speaking from a 2’s standpoint, boomy perspective, one thing I’ll say about BM is that it’s easier to shut down their dmg. I can chase a BM while hibernating, rooting, or cloning the pet. All 3 effectively stop their damage where with survival, it’s not as simple nor can I dps while doing it. I don’t think BM’s damage is bad per se, it’s just not as reliable. Plus they have specific nerfs that others have mentioned I think. I don’t know though.
ccing the pet screws sv over pretty hard
Yea you can’t sac, masters call or use kill command to generate focus to do damage. It sucks just as much either specs.
Ya this
SV loses just as much damage as BM will with a dead/CC’d pet.
As for the OP both specs are fine in 2v2
So the target dummy often does not take into account the 30 to 50% hidden pet damage nerf for rated pvp for BM.
I play both BM and SURV currently and even with less gear (470 surv vs 476 BM ilvl) on my alts I do 15% more damage on average on my surv hunter.
I think both are viable in 2s atm, but BM tends to have longer games, take less damage, and do slightly less damage in return.
Also, your relative performance will be VERY different as BM vs SURV depending on comp. As BM I struggle vs DH / DK / monk teams but seem to counter 90% of lock / mage / rogue teams. As survival it’s the exact opposite, melee teams feel like a free win and casters are very hard.
Survival definitely has the better toolkit for 2s games right now, but I would expect tough games vs locks (which are almost a free win as BM).
I’d say play what you have more fun playing, and what you enjoy countering. The percentage of locks vs DH over 2k rating (for example) is within a percentage point of one another. The specs of BM and SURV both have comps they’re good into, and ones they will struggle against. You kind of have to pick your poison.
On the plus side for BM, it’s the strongest spec also for mythic + and raids for hunter atm, so you can be lazy like me and focus on a single spec to gear optimally for multiple situations (I have 3 different sets for bm pve and two sets for bm pvp). Trying to gear correctly for multiple specs and multiple situations makes my brain hurt.
For pvp as BM I recommend vers > haste > crit > mastery (due to the hidden pet/mastery nerfs in pvp).
For pvp surv haste > vers > crit = mastery (both are equally bad)
Feel free to add me if you want to talk hunter: Hog#1657
I’m a little higher as BM right now (2400 vs 2k) than survival, but I’m playing survival on my alt quite a bit, and I’ve been 2500+ as both since Legion.
^ Pretty much.
In a nutshell viability and damage are two different things.
Separately, both can work as I feel like BM works much better this season with corruption + bike trinket also, last season was 2s damp and well timed maledicts for me, big snooze fest. Play what you love!
The only thing I’d say is mastery is way better than crit in pvp it at least since it increases the damage of mongoose bite and serpent sting. It’s not the optimal stat but it’s no where near as bad as crit at least in my eyes anyways haha.
I’ve got pretty terrible survival gear but the kit just feels better in 2’s than BM to me. As survival I can push and play really aggro And then run away with more utility from my talents than BM. Net and the iron trap talent are fantastic when playing against a DH and I wouldn’t trade them for the world when the purple mongo monster is pressing W at my Disc healer and doing 27k DPS.
When I was still playing retail I liked BM , people say “it sucks” or whatever but its super good versus any caster queue into, shadow priest, warlocks, mages, with silence sting was like super easy mode most the time. Can stand toe-to-toe with rogues too, but some fury warriors with gear/skill are hard to 1v1 in those 2v2 times where its a cc fest.