Since my point is “BM is bad in M+” meta data is a great way of making it. Competitive players aren’t playing it because it’s not good. Casual players are complaining because it’s not good. isolated examples and anecdotal evidence provided by people to suggest that BM is not that bad is contrary to this data.
Also if you don’t like representative meta data because of the inherent human factor bias (maybe BM is actually not bad but just perceived as bad, or maybe the visuals of MM really do entice people to play MM) , would you accept SIM data as a measurement of feasibility? 5 target cleave sim has BM 27% behind MM; 8 target cleave is 29% behind. Dungeon slice (eww) has BM 12% behind.
Individual performance data is unreliable because it can be manipulated. In some cases, entire raid/M+ runs are tailored just to make one player look good in the logs, skewing the data in their favor. Also at an individual log you may be looking at a 100 parse BM against a 60 parse mage and conclude “wait they’re both with the same damage?”. That is not how it works and not what must be seem for BALANCE issues. We need to compare a broad set of parses, in multiple scenarios, to properly judge BALANCE.
Aggregated data—analyzing a broad set of performance metrics across many players and situations—is the only reliable way to assess class balance. What matters is the overall trend. Class balance is about ensuring that, on average, all classes perform similarly across various encounters, not about the outliers or exceptional individual performances.
Repeat with me…
Individual performance data is unreliable.
Individual performance data is unreliable.
Individual performance data is unreliable.
Bm hunter has to get past a certain gear lvl to be half a marks/survival hunter. Doing less than a same lvl tank at low lvls is true. Bm scaling is horrible, bm AOE is worse.
It makes sense. Lots of people, like me, gravitate to the easiest class/spec possible, so we get bummed when those easy min maxing specs aren’t good.
I rarely complain about it though, I’ll just find the easy one that is good.
One thing I’ve learned over the many years I’ve played is as long as one spec for a class is good in content then things are “ok”. Problem is when a class doesn’t have at least one good spec in content - such as warlocks in Shadowlands; people would invite them to M+ groups for cookies and then kick them.
MM is in a really good spot for keys, so it’s learn the harder spec to play or find an easy spec on a different class.
At least until the rework goes live. The good news is your voices were heard - that most definitely doesn’t always happen.
Wow, way to completely miss the point and act like a total troll. Is this how you always “debate”? Just throwing out snarky one-liners without any actual substance? Real mature, dude.
Let’s break down your “amazing” rebuttals:
“LOL no.” - Oh man, you really got me there! Such a well-thought-out argument. Care to explain WHY you disagree, or is “LOL” the extent of your vocabulary?
You laughed but didn’t explain why that’s wrong. Let me clarify: class balance means that across a range of encounters, each class should have similar potential to contribute. This doesn’t mean everyone is equal in every single fight, but overall, classes shouldn’t have massive gaps in performance when averaged across different scenarios. Aggregated data is what gives us this broad view.
“Thanks for confirming you have no idea how logs work” - Nice try, but you’re the one showing your ignorance here. My example was spot-on and proves exactly why looking at single logs is misleading AF. But I guess reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, huh?
this example is exactly how logs can be misleading if you only focus on individual performances without context. A 100 parse BM Hunter might seem to perform equally to a 60 parse mage on paper, but that doesn’t tell the whole story. Parsing differences like this can easily misrepresent balance if you don’t look at aggregate data. This is why I said individual performance can be skewed, and why it’s essential to look at a broad data set.
And hey, congrats on completely ignoring the main points about data manipulation and why we need aggregated data. Too complicated for you to handle, or just didn’t fit your trolling agenda?
Look, if you wanna have a real discussion, bring some actual arguments to the table. Otherwise, stick to your meme responses and leave the serious talks to the grown-ups. Your weak attempts at dunking on my points just make you look clueless about how game balance actually works.
Just returning your energy. When you yourself don’t actually have any point and make foolish statements you get simple answers back.
I don’t waste time trying to have “real discussions” with people that hide their main and show over and over they are completely clueless on the subject manner.
Like I said. You don’t actually have any points and the “data” you linked doesn’t actually prove anything.
Your “best” point was that logs are manipulated because of externals.
Those same externals that are available to everyone. At the end of the day the only percentile that matters when discussing class balance is 95th percentile because games not balanced around grey parsing players that can’t manage barbed shot stacks.
The irony. I see you doubled down on looking foolish.
I don’t care if you take them seriously or not. The difference is what I’m saying is usually accurate.
You do realize I played warlock as a main in SL right? Just because people may or may not have been kicking warlocks has zero correlation to their strength Destro and SV were insanely broken in season 3 and 4. I also remember demo being very strong in season 1 and 2 as well.
Lying again. I made several points and you deflect.
You don’t because you can’t. And while this is really not my main, it’s a good enough 2k IO character, an almost AotC healer. I’m fine with the progress of this character because I’m not going hardcore this season anyway…
I made several points, you deflect because you’re a compulsive liar and an obvious dishonest person.
That is not how data analyze works. You don’t choose your demography like that, unless you’re being biased.
If a hypothetical class is so hard to play, that only 10 persons in the entire world are being able to parse 100, most players are parsing gray, and only with parse 100 the damage of this hypothetical class is on par with another hypothetical class that has the majority of its players parsing 90+, this data shows these class are unbalanced.
And I just made another point that you will ignore because you’re a dishonest person. Or just dumb, IDK to be honest.
A while ago someone asked “what is a troll” in the general discussion. You are, the very definition. Ignore points, act in dishonest, don’t actually want to debate, just showing toxic behavior, etc.
But you serve your purpose, the things you type are so blatant wrong that it make people want to reply, and your bad troll behavior keep the topics alive. So yeah keep trolling… No one cares too much about your opinion anyway.