Will BM hunter do more damage than MM as the expansion goes on? It feels this will be true later on.
Unlikely. Why do you feel this to be true?
MM currently scales better than BM
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Because in the past as we get better gear with more secondary stats BM tens to over take BM. MM doesnât scale as well with better gear.
That was only true in BFA because of the systems there. As Thekk said, mathematically MM gains more benefit from stats than BM.
MM scales really well, and it can use all 4 stats. it also has an insane weapon damage stat scaling.
Unless they fix or buff BM slightly more before patch hits - its unlikely unless we get powers as strong as the corruptions were (which is also unlikely) the only reason BM was stronger its because they had DnD Azerite trait + 60-70% base crit to 100% uptime DnD. Otherwise their damage woud have still been low.
BM was out of control last expansion because of Azerite Traits. BM doesnât scale as well as MM with secondaries, because if youâre keeping frenzy at 3 stacks all the time you have âenoughâ haste and crit. So you just stockpile vers after that; mastery scaling is doo-doo for BM. That being said, mastery is really good for MM and vers isnât that bad. All the secondary stats are good for MM at all points in gearing, whereas BM falls off once they have âenoughâ haste and crit to keep frenzy stacks at 3. BM is already at a point (with full mythic gear) where they have âenoughâ haste and crit, so their scaling is already starting to fall off.
*I say âenoughâ because haste and crit arenât solely for frenzy stacks, they just really fall off after you have 100% uptime on it.
BM had Dance of Death Azerite Trait on BFA. It was not popular on early Seasons of BFA. Somewhere around 8.1, Dance of Death got 20% buff increase.
As BM Hunterâs Crit stats went higher, Dance of Death became viable. On Season 3 and Season 4, it became the BiS stats for BM Hunters with high Crit stats.
You can wear 3x Azerite gear with Dance of Death Trait. IT PROCS A LOT.
Dance of Death
Barbed Shot has a chance equal to your critical strike chance to grant you XXX Agility for 8 sec.
Does BM Hunter have a similar ability on BFA? There should be a legendary or Conduit that buffs BM Hunters with high Crit stats. I dont know. I switched to MM Hunter on day 1 of Shadowlands.
There is much more âpastâ than the last 2 raids of BFA. Just saying.
The scaling of all classes is quite dependent on the new borrowed powers we will get along with the tuning of current ones.
With the nerf of the Serpent Sting legendary MM will see a small decline in the scaling of all their stats.
Says who? Looks like they scale pretty evenly:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#itemleveldisplay=scaled&class=Hunter&aggregate=amount
You might need to look at your posted Log again The steady upward smooth damage increase of MM hunter from 214 I/level epitomize whats recognized as a good scaling profile.
In comparison BM and poor SV not smooth are up an down wildly Both specs especially SV fall off markedly after 224 I/level SV. shows MM with a 1300dps advantage over SV at a 226 i/level
Following Raidbots sims for 235 Rylacs Fangs Crit is my best stat so far still at 212 I/level.
{ I find SFE too unforgiving for my play-style}
They are moving up at relatively same angle⌠MM is not increasing exponentially.
BM is fairly consistent but will see a jump in there damage as Beastial Wrath up time increases due to increased crit and haste values.
Crit dose the fallowing:
Increases the number of opportunities we have to proc Wild Call
increases over all damage via critical strikes
causes two of our talents to gain a degree of value over there competitors
Haste dose the fallowing:
Reduces GCD
Reduces the CD of both Kill Command and Barbed shot
Increases our auto attack speed offering a slight increase to Wilds Call opportunities
The main difference is the increase to beastial wrath frequency. If we are talking an active raid boss you can cut around half of Beastial Wraths CD off right now because Wild call dose not proc reliably. Later on BM will increase the proc chance per auto attack crit to almost a 50% using the One with the Pack talent and Echoing Call conduit. This means every auto attack crit will be a one in two chance of procing Wild Call. Due to increase secondary stats this will become the default instead of the current Scent of Blood and Bloodletting set up. Our Haste will make up for the reduced Barbed shot recharge by the next tire.
In addition to the increased Beastial Wrath up time Rylakstalkerâs also gains significant value with both Haste and Crit because of pet attack speed and focus regen being increased as well as crit causing this legendary to do more direct damage. This is where the aggressive scaling comes in because Blizzard is also buffing this legendary by 15%.
As for comparing with MM well it depends entirely on the encounter and the player. BM is very easy to do good damage on. There are times that MM will be forced in to high movement or there are mechanics that can break up there rotation These are usually opportunities for BM to shine using there pets to attack an LoS target, keeping damage on an enemy or add while they are stunned. When it comes down to it BMâs place will be more or less determined by how effective both are in the coming tire. I donât expect MM to drop or anything so dramatic but BM should catch up to a degree. In the end there place in a raid will likely be determined by the encounters and the mechanics in place. If the fights call for a more bursty playstyle then MM will shine. If the fights are extremely high mobility then BM will shine. In the end it will likely come down to how well you play one spec or the other. If your play both well right now play MM if you like BM then play that it is not as bad off as some have made it out to be post buff.
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That does not appear to be the case for the foreseeable future in this expansion.
Sim-wise, for sustained AoE in the dominant talent/Covenant builds of either spec, MM gets ~20% more DPS contribution (i.e., âvalueâ) from each point of Mastery, ~30% more from each point of Critical Strike, and ~450â475% more from each point of Weapon DPS. (Yes, a point of WD on BM is worth less than a fifth of its value on MM.)
In turn, BMâs gets ~15% more value from Haste and ~35% more value from Agility. Given how much of each stat may be added with any ilvl upgrade, MM should have a faint scaling advantage.
All that is still sustained AoE, though. Even if BM notably outscaled MM, MMâs AoE burst would still skew performance in its favor for a long while to come in all but the highest Fortified keys.
Itâd also still likely be taken over in most PvE scenarios BM just due to the sheer strength of the Wild Spirits + Trueshot + Tricks Shots burst AoE niche.
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They did say somewhere that some specs will get stronger later on when gear and secondaries, etc, start scaling more.
For as long as I can remember, there have been people insisting BM scales better with gear and those that insist it scales worse with gear. The fact is the spec is just hard to balance and Blizzard doesnât seem to want to give it much attention.
Right now, burst is king in SL and BM lacks burst, so weâre terrible. Without Wild Spirits, BM is literally the worst spec in the game right now. In BfA, BM synergized well with Azerite traits and corruption, but anyone that didnât have near ideal traits was essentially garbage. It was a horrible example of min-maxing.
As it stands right now, BM is decent in mid-tier PvE content. We do very well in Mythic+ up to about a 14 key. We do well in Heroic raiding as well. However, as you get into 15+ keys and Mythic raiding, the lack of burst really hurts our potential.
PvP, on the other hand, is a joke with BM. Lack of burst, lack of defensives, and our pets die too fast. Since our pets are the focus of our entire spec, killing our pet is like disarming a warrior permanently and the only way to re-equip their weapon is with a four second interruptable channel.
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I just hope to be proven wrong.
BUT doubtful if BM can scale good enough catch up to MM let alone the top performers.
With he current way secondaryâs benefit the spec {Minimal benefit from Mastery} Add in the diminishing returns to secondaryâs and a lack of synergistic borrowed power traits and good legendarys in the SL expansion we will never attain the level attained in BfA
In the past when?
WOTLK : MM far better spec at the end of the xpac by a big margin
Cata : MM far better spec at the end of the xpac by a big margin
MOP : did not play my hunter so i donât know
WoD: did not play my hunter until HFC but in HFC MM was better for sure
Legion : Itâs questionable whatever BM was better at any time i would say less dependant on legendaries toward the end but all hunter specs were kind of crap after NH and in NH MM was the best for sure
BFA : all spec were kind of crap until BM was broken due to corruption/essence/azerite. BM did not scale better it had far superior azerite traits and because of that had better synergy with the main essence.
Better gear will make BM more competitive for sure as it still scale very well with crit but the lack of VoP/BoE essences and PI/DoD/RR azerite talents will not break it like it did in BFA. The spec was broken to a laughable point at the end of BFA. In mythic+ my uptime of BW and AotW was pretty close to 90% (while fighting). In the raid the uptime of BW was so high because of corruption that the Killer Cobra talent was pretty much an almost permanent thing (boosted by a very high DoD uptime) which it really should not be and will not be this expansion as without the corruption it wont be possible to have enough crit for that.