As someone who never played WCIII, I’m curious - did Garithos specifically send letters to Ironforge to request those troops?
I was under the impression that the dwarves were sent to go aid Lordaeron, blind to its exact inner workings and who exactly was alive or not, and joined up with the largest army and highest-ranking badge they found when they got there.
I’m finding it rather difficult to nail down what information exactly made it out of Lordaeron, both contemporaneously and after-the-fact. Everything I can find seems to be frustratingly vague.
We actually don’t see much of Garithos in the game, and it’s mostly him being racist to elves. No mention of the Dwarves. There’s loose discussion of reinforcements for Dalaran, but all he ever talks about is how Kael’thas can’t be trusted and the naga are evil. The game mechanics allow you to recruit Dwarves when making certain units, so the lore is probably tailored to reflect that.
By the way, we also see that Garithos is working for a dreadlord, but that fact seems to be skipped over in this discussion lol
Casual reminder like any and all lore interviews, it was Metzen and Afrasiabi responding off the cuff, and it really isn’t worth much given half the damn inane statements are now retcon’d to begin with
Worry more about what makes a better story and less about trying to thread a through-line through this incoherent garbage
No, there is nothing in WC3: Frozen Throne that mention Garithos sending letters to Ironforge.
We do get a short scene with some of the riflemen (That represents the Ironforge dwarves) who question why they have to work with Garithos. The dwarves who also work with Garithos, are also getting an earfull of Garithos’ racism, so they are also not particularely fond of it.
The Chronicles does mention that Ironforge sent aid to Garithos because they recognized him as the last viable representative of Lordaeron at that time, something like that. It is not the exact words of the chronicles.
It is largely irrelevant. We know for a fact, it has been stated multiple times, that Garithos was very angry with the elves, he was a huge racist, and he did intentionally send the Blood Elves into suicide missions to get rid of them in a manner that could also benefit him somewhat.
Him being “controlled” by a dreadlord later on in the story is irrelevant, as it had no effect on what he did before that. Garithos being controlled would also first be relevant AFTER the Blood Elves escaped, at which point Garithos turned his focus back to the undead, and he pushed them back into the Plaguelands, where he then met with the dreadlords and was controlled by Detheroc.
He never wanted to because he was also a human supremacist bigot.He purposelysent Kael’thas and his elves on missions that were supposed to kill them, when that failed he decided to have them executed on trumped up treason charges.
By the time things got to this stage, the Alliance of Lordaeron had ceased to exist and the remains were still in a process of coalescence which would not be truly set until the Integrum between the RTS and the MMORG.
Honestly, with Blizzard’s ignorance to class-identity in correlation to various races / kingdoms (and their respective cultures / ideals) – I honestly feel like I can roleplay more smoothly in Diablo 4, with plausible backstories included; without having to loudly declare headcanon that can be easily disputed or is quite obviously & loudly anti-canon as such with WoW …
Which is ironic given the kind of game Diablo 4 is, versus World of Warcraft … Which is decreed a ‘ROLEPLAYING’ game. Letting that sink in for a bit, I don’t know whether to shake my head in disappointment @ WoW, or merely laugh at its ineptitude.
Yeah, I also don’t see them applying much effort to fix lore or fill in the gaps of their story for the classes within various races, and RP identity for players either sadly.
I’m feeling less & less drawn to WoW, and more further pushed away from it due to such writing as the void elves & what it does to other races / destructive world building …
Yeah I mentioned something along those lines further up in the thread (might’ve been a different thread, but I’ve had the argument) to those that suggest it can’t be done or would be too difficult / impossible … Like uh, no it wouldn’t lol – Particle effects and colour change is very easy (Well, difficulty may vary depending what program you’re creating & manipulating them on but more or less).
Modelling, is a whole other story but particle effects such as water, or spell visuals are way more simple and a LOTless time-consuming. Not to mention they already have the assets, so all they’d need to do really is merely apply it and write up a story / questline.
It’s not a matter of ability, it’s a matter of willingness. And I don’t think Blizzard is willing to do Shadow or Void paladins, or Holy warlocks or Shadow Priests with Holy spell skins.
Which would be fantastic for races with lore-constraints on the opposing forces, and benefit the roleplay community … Sometimes I swear, it feels like Blizzard are trying – To grind the lore lovers & roleplayers community into dust, and burn the foundations to ash.
At this point, I honestly feel like I can have more class identity with lore & roleplay in D4 than I do in WoW — which is quite huge considering World of Warcraft is an MMO and Diablo 4 isn’t …
Gameplay aside, you want to appease other audiences that play your games (Such as those that enjoy lore, quests for story & RP progression) – Even if they’re not a grand majority, the figures are still an impact & can have a swift domino effect if not addressed carefully.
Remember when they said they’d add player customizations throughout Shadowlands, and then backpedaled for the first major patch with the statement, “Patches bring content, and customization isn’t really content? We don’t want to waste time on something that isn’t content.”
It was only after significant backlash that they changed course again, but it gives you insight into the Game Director’s thinking. To him, content is raiding, quests, PvP. Content isn’t adapting your avatar for immersion or personal preferences.
I’d say their backpedaling on player customizations in Shadowlands shows that it’s more than a minority of players who like this stuff. The problem is getting them to keep embracing this, when you have someone at the helm who quite obviously feels that if it’s not giving player characters power, it’s not content.
Honestly, the spell visual wouldn’t be ground breaking effort and if they add in questlines with lore & cosmetic gear to earn with it – Then that’s content.
Boom, win win scenario for players there.
It’s not a personal preference, it’s a preference to align game play with the lore …
If you think that’s the core feature to what was wrong with Shadowlands, then this is a lost conversation. In all seriousness, that was one of the few things that were actually complimented on the abomination of an expansion.
That’s a different issue to be discussed on a different thread, but I will agree on that. Having simple adventurous features & story in flux with entertaining combat & puzzle content is what makes a great game to many.
However being consistently zerged with power and being ‘The chosen one’ everywhere you go, makes it lose its touch & doesn’t really feel special or intriguing. Storywise, if they made an infusement of power to withstand particular audiences or various battles, along with “You might be the chosen one” but held with skepticism majority of the time – That’d feel a lot better. Somehow Legion managed to do both, but all things considered, I really enjoyed it as an expansion.
I don’t disagree. Devs were making customizations and custom transmog as passion projects in their free time, after all. It doesn’t seem like this is either hard or would detract terribly from anything. But, you know Ion. “Do you want X, or a raid tier?”
Yeah, I think we’ve all seen what they think about the, “lore,” of WoW at this point.
Where did you get that impression from? I was citing Dev comments about customizations, not what was wrong with Shadowlands. That’d take a whole new thread or twelve, and days worth of work to organize. It’d be easier and faster to write a thesis for a Master’s Degree.
Indeed, WoW doesn’t pull off the, ‘Chosen One,’ narrative that well with the player character, and I’d argue that’s based in (more than) two reasons.
The first is that the setting itself already has it’s, ‘Chosen One,’ type characters, and those are the leaders or, Hero Units from WC3. The likes of Thrall, Jaina, Sylvanas, Tyrande, etc… We as players were more relatable to the nameless, faceless units you mass produced in those missions.
The second, coming right off the first, is that WoW wasn’t designed with a narrative of the PC being the, ‘Chosen One,’ either. Sometimes we made great strides and accomplishments (killing Onyxia), but rather than being heralded as the savior of Azeroth, this was treated more as a feather in the cap of a mercenary whom was starting to make a name for themselves. We were still a nobody, but a reliable nobody.
Presumably they’re just Forgotten Shadow Dark Clerics who hang out with the Forsaken in Tirisfal or Tranquillen.
I’m just sort of presuming Silvermoon isn’t in the habit of jailing it’s closest (and let’s be real here - only) allies under religious persecution laws.
And also welcome to the wacky world of Priest lore. Presumably the Void and Shadow are synonymous but they’re frequently spoken of as if they’re separate entities.
Maybe the Shadow is just what’s cast by the Light whereas the Void is the complete absence of it?
Honestly as a Priest RPer I don’t worry about it too much. If anything can be learned from Shadowlands it’s that some topics are best left vague.
Because seriously your eternal afterlife being handled by a Robot Angel where there’s no appeals process, much less a trial, and you’ll languish in perdition eternally if it malfunctions has got to be one of the most insane things I’ve ever heard.
Honestly I understand the shift of why we went from a cog in the wheel, a nameless adventurer, into the “champion” or “leader of our class hall title” or whatever variant of chosen one. For the ones that have been there since the start, it’s progression of the character making a name for themselves into having made a name for themselves.
But I must admit that I miss that faceless quality we had. We were helping out the effort, not the driving force.
