Blood Elf Shadowpriests and void-users were canonically exiled

Its just them depicting rommath as the staunch traditionalist who would never stoop so low, despite him being the one who brought fel to quel’thalas, they really just want to tell that story.

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They’re depicting him as a staunch traditionalist because he brought fel to Quel’Thalas, and feels responsible for the consequences (Kael’s downfall, the Burning Legion takeover, the Fel-well’s near-extinction of his race). Him wanting to avoid similar disasters with Void is the whole point; he feels the blood elves should know better now, as he does.

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Actually, this is not mentioned at all during Midnight

Even vaguely

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I don’t even think its brought up in the short story, its just ignored.

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Correct.

Blizzard is working extra hard to make sure all edge is given to the Void Elves and Blood Elves are left with nothing lol

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It was in In the Shadow of the Sun, though, which has informed every aspect of his character since he was really given one.

Lor’themar clenched his fists in resentment. “I will do whatever it takes to protect Quel’Thalas and its people,” he stated. “And you will obey my orders. Do I make myself clear?”
“Another leader of the sin’dorei once said something very similar to me, Lor’themar,” Rommath said softly, looking away. “I did not argue with him then; indeed, at the time, I thought him right.” Lor’themar’s blood ran cold. “We buried him on Quel’Danas.”

It was alluded to in the tribunal scene, when Rommath warned Umbric that to juice Quel’Thalas with Void was to repeat Kael’s mistake and fail to learn from history. Or maybe he was talking about the hazards of courting Jaina Proudmoore.

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Actually, well, no

Rommath is never stated to have been responsible for the fel magic sustaining silvermoon/eversong

Sure, he thought Kael right. That much is explicit. Sure one can speculate/assume Rommath learned fel magic to do so.

But oddly enough, the game nor the short story ever points this out as a flaw in his logic. At no point is his hypocrisy engaged with. In fact, Umbric frames Rommath as always being against all dark magics lol

This is partly because Blizzard still has the weird ideology of writing lore from gameplay first.

So if the Magisters were maintaining fel crystals with demonic souls, surely that means they are warlocks!

Because Blizzard does not grasp that Lore Classes =/= Gameplay Classes and any one Lore Class can be any number of Gameplay Class

Not directly. But there are plenty of comments that do lay responsibility on him. Alinta literally just quoted one.

Blizzard can sometimes have a problem calling out ‘hero’ characters for their mistakes/flaws/bad choices. And, yes there should be more characters calling Rommath out for the Fel incident. But it doesn’t have to be directly stated to be part of the story.

Rommath’s reaction to the Void Elves and his ‘traditionalist’ actions could easily be (at least partially) explained by guilt over the Fel. There are comments he makes that do point that way. Nothing says anything counter to that. So, for the time being the explanation that makes the most sense is that guilt is a motivator.

Which is why ihate most of legion orderhalls
priest and paladin espcially (and even besides that, priest campaign being your class sucks is like WHO APPROVED THAT)

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Except it wasn’t … The dedicated story didn’t state that Dar’Khan Drathir’s work is what explicitly got them exiled – but merely just that it was an additional factor that played into it and made such worse.

The void’s very nature poses a danger to the Sunwell.
Rommath made that clear in the statement he made within the recruitment questline.

Correct.

Baal’s on the money here.

Rommath has NEVER expressed anything regarding to any sort of feeling of remorseful responsibility to bringing the Fel to Quel’thalas :joy:

  • Even the magic siphoning too, which albeit born of fel-origins (Illidan) then to Kael’Thas → Rommath taught his people the passed on magic-satiation methods adapted through the Arcane, not fel.

When he returned to Silvermoon and Quel’Thalas from Outland, he brought the magic siphoning teachings of Illidan — teachings that Rommath smoothly attributed to Prince Kael’thas.

  • Such teachings which were able to help their people in need and rebuild.

The fel crystals however, were primarily used to power their city, but were a necessary tactic in securing their kingdom, as many of the architectures, structures and much more were sustained by magic – something I doubt Rommath would feel remorsefully responsible for, given the circumstances and alternative outcomes of ruin which would’ve followed.

Rommath’s prior references in lore of what may resemble guilt or severity – tend to stem from Kael’s eventual betrayal and poor leadership of his people, given that he was once an advisor and mayhap felt he could’ve altered the result.

That quoted-one though, doesn’t reeeeally contribute to the context of Rommath bearing responsibility of the fel in Quel’Thalas / corruption of Kael’Thas etc, though.

Rommath’s sense of responsibility:

What’s been utmost emphasised with the responsibility Rommath is the aftermath of Kael’thas — Rommath himself was left shattered by this turn of events, and resolved not to simply stand on the sidelines while decisions are made by others to damn his people further. Ultimately, it was a responsibility to speaking up to leadership.

I mean, this character summary kind of preaches my argument. What can we infer from Rommath’s regret that he enabled the actions that doomed Kael’thas? What did you think he was alluding to when he cited Kael’thas as reason to reject Umbric’s proposed Void infusion into Quel’Thalas? What chapter of blood elf history might have influenced Rommath’s newfound aversion to corruptive magics? Why is the blood elf government cracking down on unsanctioned fel use in Midnight? Why are Rommath’s warlock subordinates expected to comply with proscriptions on their craft? What do you think Cho the panda historian was talking about when he described the dangers of “dark sorcery” as a wake-up call to the race after TBC?

I appreciate that the blood elves’ relationship with fel magic is, or was, frustratingly vague in TBC (or at least the game; the companion lore, as you say, was clearer), but I think you’re wide off the mark in dismissing Kael’s ruinous experience with the stuff as irrelevant to Rommath’s development as a character. With the Kirin Tor fallen out of relevance I’d argue TBC’s fallout informs his character to a greater degree than anything else.

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Let’s think about this for just a minute. The conversation directly references Kael’thas and doing anything to save Quel’Thalas. What did they do? What was it that Rommath did not argue with him over? What order did Rommath follow? It all comes back to the use of Fel. Rommath followed orders and brought the Fel to Silvermoon. Blizzard obviously remembers that. They are explicitly referencing it.

So, the conversation in question absolutely does lay responsibility on him. Even if it was following orders, Blizzard remembers and lays that on him.

Yes. His experience and his participation in Kael’thas actions leads him to stand strong against a repeat of anything like that happening again. That is the most reasonable explanation for his hard line against those using the Void.

Is he acting a bit like a hypocrite? Sure. Does it make sense? Absolutely. In RL people often act hypocritical about anything related things they feel guilty about. The story could use someone calling him out for it. Arguably there are a few that should be raising the issue. But his response does make sense because of his past with the Fel.

You do not drag Hazzikostas for dying on the “no high elves” hill enough.

None of your indications are declarative. They are actions that you put a spin on.

Warlocks have always been openly quartered in Silvermoon City as opposed to hiding in a basement in Stormwind’s most sketchy pub.

There has been no directive made against the practise of the warlock arts.

And they have used Shadow Priest Magisters to quell dissent.

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Reminder that a shadowpriest can canonically bathe in the Sunwell and nothing happens because their use of shadow is not Void Elf use of void. Any extrapolation otherwise is pretendy times headcanon.

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I mean that being said, the fel and the void are far two different things.

On top of that, you have the Sunwell’s new reborn state - born of light — and given the void is held in direct opposition to the light (and Rommath would obviously know such, being the Grand Magister of Silvermoon) – as you said, it makes absolute sense being opposed towards it :dracthyr_nod:

  • To add on to that – Whether or not he was responsible for the fel-crystals and chaos energy outlets to maintain Quel’Thalas → this was also when the Sunwell was destroyed and had not been restored as of yet …
  • Whereas the void; with the Sunwell restored once more – would raise some eyebrows, especially considering the Sunwell has been corrupted twice — once by undeath, and another by the Legion — which one could fairly reason the influences of fel, chaos and exposure to both (which possibilities had been neglected by Rommath until he realised what was unfolding and fought against it) had opened Kael’s allegiances towards such.

Overall, Rommath’s decision of prohibiting the void isn’t made lightly or without precedent :person_shrugging:


That said, overall:

I’m actually GLAD they addressed the elephant in the room with Rommath + void users, regardless of being on the Horde or a Blood Elf :slight_smile: Makes you feel like you’re still part of the world and story – even (perhaps especially) the taboo, conflicting or complex ones :head_shaking_vertically:

I’ve literally listed them all outright for what they are and how they were depicted … Heck, I even provided the sources.
One can choose to ignore them, but ultimately that’s just pure denial.

:person_shrugging: Additionally, the word “Indication” doesn’t require to be declarative.
That’s the whole basis of the word.

  • To serve as a sign, symptom, or token of; signify.
  • To suggest or demonstrate the necessity, expedience, or advisability of.

Which is why I also reasoned one could argue the indications are reasonably up for interpretation :grin:

Ooooh, where was that? :open_mouth:
And was it between BFA and Midnight? (or is it during Midnight?)

Because that’d be at least a somewhat satisfying ordeal to the overall subject for void-wielding Blood Elves amongst Quel’Thalas — Like an exception to the rule one could at least RP their void-wielding spell-caster beside. :slight_smile:

Within most cases, the shadowpriests primary use of shadow magic – canonically draws their power from the void :grimacing: They even have a major ability called ‘Void Form’ and several other directly void-related talents & abilities.

I’m not saying this is a good thing either – personally I’m not a fan of them homogenizing all the powers that be into one pool (eg. Tapping into Shadow magic from a Revendreth or maybe a loa and other places would’ve been nice / especially with spell-customisations like warlocks have for fel-fire).

They are both dangerous and corrupting magic. Which is really the key comparison point.

And to be clear, saying he is acting like a hypocrite is not so much an issue of whether or not he is correct. He brought a corrupting, dangerous magic to Quel’thelas and now he is acting like he is righteous. There is no hint of the ‘I made the mistake and wont allow something like it again’ kind of approach. That makes his actions hypocritical.

That said, him acting hypocritical is a good thing from a narrative perspective. Characters having flaws and blind spots add depth. We don’t want a story with characters not having those kind of issues. That would make the story feel contrived. I would like to see some other characters calling out the hypocrisy, because you would expect some would see it. But, overall, I like that there is that flaw and character struggle.

I am not 100% sure, but I think he is referring to BC. In Silvermoon there were protesters that were mind controlled to stop the protests.

And from what I understand, Silvermoon and Quel’Thalas at large took measures to remove large influences of the fel from their kingdom.

That said — The void is STILL more formidably dangerous towards the corruption of the light, than the fel is … which is really the key comparison point.

Eh ~ One could fairly argue that was just normal priests using such, despite being a ‘shadow ability’ — I mean, I can cast that as holy spec if I choose to :joy:

Full fledge shadowpriests though can douse themselves in shadowform — and if need be, ramp up to enter VOID form :grimacing: That of which the players’ power-scale tends to reach and hold such power, thus would prove a potential danger to the nature of the Sunwell and Quel’Thalas at large – Hence the indicated banishment & exile from their homelands until the crisis coming to Midnight arrived. :slight_smile:

That is also my understanding. But I think you are missing what I am meaning when I say he is acting hypocritical. It isn’t about whether or not the void is allowed in. It is how he approaches Umbric. There is a very self righteous attitude. He is aggressive and hostile. He is acting very hypocritical about it.

And, to be clear, that is a good thing for a story narrative. It feels real, because that is often how people act when they escape a vice. Guilt and regret tend to make people angry. Couple that with a ‘I learned, why wont you’ kind of attitude and you very often get hypocritical responses. That is what it feels like is going on with him.

Personally, my complaint is the lack of call outs. There are characters that should be calling out the hypocrisy. There should be some form of ‘you are one to talk.’ Which could be met with a kind of ‘yah, and I learned better’ response. Back and forth. Like you often see in RL interactions over vices/problems that one person has overcome. Instead everyone just seems to be acting as if Rommath has just always been that way.

I don’t disagree. But I also remember when Anduin used mind control in MoP there was lots of ‘oh, he is a shadow priest now’ responses. And I have seen people refer to those Silvermoon priests mind controlling protesters as ‘shadow priests.’ I can’t swear to what Blizzard intended them to be, or even if they thought about it. Maybe they were meant to be shadow priests, but I don’t think there is enough evidence to support that claim. People still make it though. And I am guessing that is what he was referring to.

I mean to that extent — I’d say it’s because when Rommath learned of the threat the fel could pose, despite the benefits he sought to take measures to reduce or remove its infuences … Umbric however, knows all too well of the risks and outright dangers & threats the void poses — Yet continues to meddle amongst it anyway.

That combined with the threat the void can hold strictly to the Sunwell due to its very reborn nature and the source of its fundamental essence — It’s no surprise Rommath holds contention against the void, even if it is overkill.

So towards that notion I’d say he could debatably be a hypocrite to a mild or moderate extent — but not necessarily a major one.

Eh ~ I’d say there’s a difference between mild shadow usage and being a full-fledged Shadowpriest.

You also have the notion of the soulpriests of Auchindoun who used both light and void to help guide souls, you might be able to wager the Blood Elves do something similar – but hold off from going beyond what’s prohibited … Although that’d be debatable without more information & narrative light shed upon it.

That’s more conjecture though than anything rather solid.

However even if such WAS the case, with it being “In cahoots” with the void — It’s ultimately irrelevant because if I recall correctly, those particular cases of the Mind Control being used to quell dissent were established BEFORE the Sunwell was reborn in the light - and thus before the void became even further taboo than it may had been before already.

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