My beef with San’layn vs deathbringer is San’layn is kinda redundant. While I REALLY like the haste buff, it also just makes Vampiric Blood stronger. I don’t really need vampiric blood to be stronger. It’s also more haste → more healing, but the damage reduction just isn’t there - I didn’t really need more healing, and the heal from Vampiric Strike…It’s nice, but it’s not really wowing me. It’s just more healing when I probably don’t need it. Meanwhile, the 10% DR from deathbringer is lovely and fills in an area that doesn’t heavily overlap with bdk’s kit.
I still prefer San’layn for filthy RPer reasons, but I’ve been playing deathbringer more and more.
it being defensive rotationally means nothing compared to the 12%~ mitigation you lose from dropping deathbringer. DK has a slingshot healthbar, and needs mitigation to make it more stable as you climb. idgaf if Sanlayn is tied to a defensive, you lose so much mitigation that it’s never worth it.
Maintaining blood queen and blood beast rng are pretty much the entire reasons I don’t care for it as much.
DB gives you full autonomy over your burst windows in st and aoe, allows you to hold vamp blood for defensive purposes only, and has more on-demand mitigation that isn’t solely reliant on standing in DnD.
Point out in this thread where I actually recommended anyone play SanLayn. Otherwise, you need to go learn some basic reading comprehension. I didn’t recommend it at all, I simply answered a question that was asked. Between you and meaty pretending to be someone else, these forums are just terrible.
First, point out where I said anywhere in this thread not to use defensives. In fact, I specifically said
You’re now trying to move the goal posts so you don’t look quite as dumb as you’ve come off. No one said anywhere to sit on cd’s. There is a vast difference between rotating thru cd’s as you tank, versus throwing it out rotationally every time it comes off cd. Quit being bad and accept the L.
I think you’re just sorely misunderstanding him. He’s agreeing that San’layn encouraging Vampiric offensively is problematic, and that even if the trigger event shifts to DRW that it’s still pretty badly outpaced by Deathbringer defensively.
Until Oct 20th, it still triggers on VB. What he said is not incorrect.
Once again: I have not checked your DK’s io, but there is a 99% chance I am higher ranked than you in previous seasons, as I was top 304 BDK in North America last season. There is no L here. Not to say someone with lesser experience cannot provide their input, but your attitude has 0 credentials to back it up.
That being said for everyone else in the thread: I’ve been using San’layn and loving it. The damage output is a little less than I want methinks, but I’ll have to wait until gear cap to make a decision. I’m at 606 ilevel, still working out boss mechanics in m+, will see how things turn out.
Feels pretty punishing to play, others might call this “clunky”. If pulls or fight mechanics don’t align with your CDs you can end up starved pretty easily. Enjoying the challenge tho.
Feels like you have to rotate not only Vamp Blood but DRW. I might pick up Rune Tap to cover windows better, like VB → DRW → VB → RT → VB → DRW.
Also been trying to make Umbilicus Eternus work for the same reason, hypothetically it should help with the downtime windows. So far its pretty bad lol. Completely negligible on bosses and you have to give up Purgatory or Bonestorm. You have to have max Coagulopathy stacks going into VB and be AOEing like 5 mobs to even notice it.
Anyway love this spec, feels like an instant classic bc of the meme potential. I recommend [Quickwick Candlestick] syncs VB burst, having a mini lust is fun.
I really love Umbilicus, but it does feel weak. I tried it on a target dummy and it takes a lot of effort to get…not much. It’s very weird and I wonder if I’m doing something wrong - I’m in the 570-80 ilvl range and I got an 840k-1.4m or so absorb on a single target dummy. It’s been ending up as ~5-7% of my total healing in dungeon runs, which feels off for some reason, especially with how often I’m using vampiric blood.
I even started trying to use it right after dancing rune weapon for the 3x blood plague, had 5 stacks of coag, plus another 30% tick speed boost from Consumption.
I’m not sure the multiple blood plagues from DRW is properly factoring in but I have neither the know-how or the skill to really figure that out.
The only real problem im seeing with Vampiric strike and Sanlayn as a whole, it does nothing likes its name or theme. Vampiric strike might contribute and I mean MIGHT, give you 3% healing through a low key with over 250 casts, which is nothing in the moment and only shows up in your overall totals at the end. I think Leeching blade will heal you more overall. It will actually be out healed by blood plague by a LOT!
Sanlayn does have some some utility and defensives, such as 5% DR within D&D, 8% str with consuming scourge and sharing a bit of your deaths advance.
Its damage seems ok, i haven’t made a direct comparison to deathbringer but my last key…Vampstrike 75M, deathstrike 74M, Runeweapon 52M, bloodboil 48M…for a 2 stonevault.
Bloodbeast is kinda a joke since it does nearly no damage when out and explodes at the wrong times (ie running to the next pack).
Fixes: Need a reduction in Deathstrike cost and or higher runic power per vamp strike if the healing will remain the same. Vamp Strike should heal the same at worse and more at best than leeching blade. (heals lower because you get 1% hp on use where leeching is per hit but for EVERY Heartstrike). Get rid of beast or make it a choice node to have something like swarming mist type power.
remember you get 5% DR while standing in death and decay from the tree…i know not as good but still has something. I really think if it healed maybe 5%-10% per strike might make it worth a damn or maybe give parry and haste per stack
It’s nice, but as you mentioned, not quite there yet. Deathbringer gives me 10% off everything just for existing. I’m not sure I’d like more healing on Vampiric Strike - there’s never really been a scenario where I feel like ‘if my heart strike healed, THAT would have done the trick’…Which is probably why nobody ever takes leeching strikes on bdk, either.
I do like the haste, cause my gear isn’t great yet so it feels better to play at lower gear levels, and it says 1% haste per stack but I think I’m getting 3%? Anyway. I really do like the themeing but deathbringer feels better in part, imo, because it bringers up weaker areas in dk’s defenses (DR) instead of boosting something they’re already good at (self healing). Which is tough cause ‘vampire’ and ‘DR’ aren’t really super closely related, themeing wise, insoar as I can tell with what they’re going for with san’layn. That said, maybe an absorb would be better, doled out over time?
Heck, I could go for a boost to the blood shield and winkwinknudgenudge a passive that makes it work on magic damage again? >.> <.<
I believe San’layn is one of a couple of hero trees that will receive a redesign 11.1?.
I made the argument on beta (broken record incoming), but I think it was a mistake to center San’layn on a rotational filler ability, such as heart strike, rather than Blood Plague. I would use Hellcaller Warlock as an example of a better design path. Hellcaller replaced corruption/immolate rather than shadow bolt/incinerate, and so it doesn’t overtake the rotation every CD cycle. All the issues with San’layn stem from replacing our filler ability imo.
I like it but you know damn well Blizzard will go, “Sure, now mark of blood makes you do whatever sanlayn is supposed to do,” and talk about never being used lol.
Well the healing is not about function but fit the theme. But, i think Durability is pretty theme accurate. I personally would like something more dodge/parry oriented to not be the same thing as Deathbringer. One based on pure DR and the other based on avoidance of sorts, much like DK blood tanks were back in its origin.