Apparently neither do you. 100% Legion activity was nostalgia. Illidan was a hook, line and sinker. That’s the hard truth. Legion was an ok expansion, I’ll go as far as to say it was good. It wasn’t a 10/10 as people make it to be.
What’s more, as a community we often fail to realize the outside factors that come into play, not saying you are wrong, but internet gamers are simply not the same as the ones that existed back in Wrath-Mop. That’s just fact. The world has dramatically changed and so has the new generation of players.
Is it so hard to imagine they are trying to adapt the game to the new demands and that comes at the cost of old players not having a place in said change unless they too adapt?
Raid loggers weren’t a thing back in the beginning… neither was Youtube. Or Social Media. It is what it is, and the way to keep the game alive, for better or worse is forward and not continuing to bang our heads against the wall asking for the past to be relived over and over.
That’s what I’m saying too. When I enjoyed fps the most it was just hopping onto a server and frag away. Didn’t care about some “leveling” system or anything like that. Games have changed a lot however and I think blizzard is just trying to keep up but often they’re going way too far. BfA is just riddled with questionable desicions.
Ok, so for people saying we have to work for the powers, how did wow survive when borrowed powers weren’t a thing?
I understand ability bloat can be a problem if they keep adding on top of it. But what I see right now is them taking away abilities then adding it back in the next expansion.
Changes I see are, there is no key defining expac seller anymore
TBC - blood elves, and dranei horde paladins and alliance shaman (ok huge deal)
Wrath - death knights new class
Cataclysm - Azeroth reshuffled and reworked.
MOP- new race new class monk
Wod - ???
Legion - new class
Bfa- ???
SL - ???
To be fair, borrowed power has always been in the game in the form of legendaries. The difference is those were always optional and the game was never configured solely around them.
I think since legion, people have either been slowly conditioned to think that endless stuff is the way to go or so tramautized by the garrison gameplay and lack of stuff to do in wod. Lets not all forget that as great as mop was, there was still a 1-1.5 year long content drought between then and wod.
Not having borrowed power doesn’t necessarily mean button bloat. Sure, some abilities can be unique to an expac. But you can also have features that enhance existing abilities and as such do not require added buttons.
Yeah I’d like to actually get something from an expansion I get to keep other than mounts and transmogs that I dont care about. but Blizzard is bad at balancing so its easier for them to just pretend the last expansion didn’t even happen.
I mean, people constantly complain about how imbalanced classes are now. It would be an absolute clown fiesta crap show if they added 3-5 new abilities per class, every single expansion.
I’m on the fence about borrowed power as a whole, but either way they would have to constantly prune and reintroduce abilities.
For me the problem isn’t borrowed power, but the fact that some specs just don’t feel good to play without borrowed power. This IMO is the big mistake of Blizzard. Specs should feel good to play without any temporary systems propping them up. If you need borrowed power to even start making a spec feel functional, then you have failed with that spec since you’ll just have to keep fixing it xpac after xpac.
Agreed. This is the biggest issue. Classes and specs should be fun all the time no matter what gear or build you have. If you ever need a item/talent/build/whatever to have fun then something has gone very wrong in the design process. There’s a new expansion on the way, we should be excited about what’s coming next, but instead we’re worried about what happens when we lose our azerites and essences.
Because it’s easier to “balance” classes when they have a set skill set and only ~2 new skills each xpac that get thrown away after.
It kinda sucks but if we all had 80 different abilities it would be a nightmare. Not sure if this is the ideal middle ground or if there’s a better solution but I imagine skill bloat is the biggest reason for borrowed power.
To be fair, long term progression systems aren’t really possible. If they just let things go forever we’d all have 27 million HP and 100 page spell books with 1000 button rotations. You have to change, prune, reset, and rely on temporary powers or things eventually fall apart.
Borrowed power isn’t the problem. Blizz’s inability to balance it is.
Hard disagree. It worked fine for the first half of WoW and progression <> just gaining new abilities (nor are we ever going to what you are claiming). You can add effects to existing abilities as well.
The IL problem is one of Blizzard’s own making as well. They use giant IL boosts to feed the carrot on the stick of constantly chasing after new and better gear.
Sadly, this end-game philosophy seems to be a thing of the past. It’s no longer the get max level > get a couple talents > get gear > have fun, game that is used to be.
Because reaching max level is not end game and never has been as long as WoW has been around. It would be a very boring game if all there was to it was leveling your toon to max level and poof you was done.
Gabitha, when we mean “solid and complete”, we don’t mean there isn’t room for them to grow (which is what endgame is about), we mean the basic function of the class feels good to play, and then the endgame stuff can BUILD on that, instead of actually making the class work in the first place. Shadow Priest is an example of a spec that has this problem currently… if you were 120 without Azerite items it would feel TERRIBLE to play, and that just shouldn’t be a thing.
Exactly. It worked for the first half. And by the end of Cata we had giant, unwieldy spellbooks and talent trees and something had to give. That’s why they revamped the talent system and moved to smaller but more dynamic rotations in the first place.
During Legion, at the Fel Hammer, the class hall, there was and is a Raid Dummy, a chained Demon Lord.
No one person can beat it, you just see how long you can last. There are two methods, the high dps, take as much of its HP as you can before it takes all yours, and the cover your butt and make it work hard and long, lasting as long as possible before being overwhelmed. By the way I worded this, it is obvious which group I was in. My job is to die last. At max level, with good gear and my choice of Lego’s I could last maybe 15 min., and beat it down to maybe 40-60% i don’t remember the numbers, not important.
What was important is I took off my Lego’s and went at it again. I lost at the most, 10% of damage/survivability.
It was a demonstration for leveling DH’s that Lego’s, while nice, were not gonna give god-like power, that we were perfectly viable without them.
Then came the BfA pre-patch and I tried the same thing. I still had high lvl gear working Lego’s,
but I also had gained GCD’s and lost fire-damage and gained seconds added to my CD’s and lost a percentage of my healing through damage and other abilities
I had owned, and it hadn’t lost a step and it crushed me. Quick.
See, I wasn’t crippled when I walked into Legion, but I was when I limped out, and not because I had lost borrowed power, but because of “pruning”.
Vital parts of the spec had been removed so they could be given back to me as Azerite abilities, and I should be grateful, or understand the need?
I tried that Raid Dummy a year ago, wearing Azerite and Lvl 120, and for some reason, still could not do as well as I did at Lvl110. 80k melee damage every 1-2 secs, plus dummy strikes and Shadow damage that stacks a debuff increasing damage… In Legion I had the tools to deal with it that did not disappear with an armor change.