What’s the deal? I have nothing against Templar at all but when I leveled up in TWW I picked Herald and loved it only to find that Templar was the better burst class for PVE. Disappointed but it was what it was. But you give us a new expansion and Herald STILL doesn’t get the viability it deserves?! Why?! Enough with the CSAA vs TS talk. Make herald viable in a real way outside of PVP, please.
I was under the impression that Herald was actually decent now. Is this not the case? 
The last time I read on Wowhead, Herald was 2-3% behind Templar.
It’s not a crazy difference in my book.
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They’re closer than they were in TWW but Templar still wins out.
Undoubtedly that gap will climb with better gear and later seasons of the expansion.
Does Templar still scale much better with Crit from the AoE Empyerian Hammers?
Haven’t played Herald in a few and cant really remember if it has a specific stat weight it likes
Yup.
I think Templar leans toward Crit/Mastery while Herald leans toward Haste/Mastery.
More or less. Templar with higher crit emphasis will be the no brainer for M+. The only real viability I see Herald holding over Templar with better gear would possibly be raid. This only leads to the fact that Heralds largest advantage is consistent pressure which is why it was preferred in PVP over templar. I also don’t know how well haste will stack to make it worth at end game ilvl but we’ll see. Especially when BiS until season 3 didn’t have anything to do with haste. I’ll also acknowledge you and I had a talk about haste and it being undervalued back in S2 for Templar but that’s neither here nor there.
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No doubt. I mean the truth is all of the Secondary Stats definitely have some type of value (even Versatility) to us paladins in one form or another.
EH were nerfed, they’ll still do 27% AP AoE damage when they crit.
They use to do the full damage of EH in AoE on crits, now it’s half.
Herald AoE gimmick is 8% of dawnlight damage around the target up to 2 dawnlight applied which means 20.4% AP times 2, so 40.8% AoE every tick baseline.
Those tick can also crit.
It should be much closer than it used to but we’re really gonna need sims to tell.
I would hardly say that justifies build time over Templar when higher mob count and lower living time means it won’t tick as often or as long. It would need serious burst to content even with EH nerf to Templar. I agree on the sims data but I highly doubt it’ll be worth it unless everyone else in the group does lackuster DPS and then you’d have a much larger issue on your hands.
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The sheer burst probably wins out for templar.
The HoL hit on 7 other mob is a steep hill to climb back from for Herald.
They did add extension mechanic for Dawnlight though that is not based on RNG, so they have an “engine”.
You get 0.6 sec when a dawnlight is hit by DS.
So you can probably extend the duration by a decent amount.
Possibly but that doesn’t entirely cover the non-burst issue that plagued herald through TWW. Don’t get me wrong that 2-3% similarity in damage is impressive and a step in the right direction but I don’t see the damage window widening enough even with better gear to be a comparable choice to Templar.
I’ll go try to test it if I have some haste adding gear around, but does haste actually do anything to the ticking DoT from dawnlight? It’ll give you more spells with more procs into triggers into ect ect ect… - but does dawnlight standard DoT scale with haste?
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Couldn’t one of Herald’s talents simply be modified so that all enemies affected by Dawnlight take X% increased damage from abilities?
I think there’s something similar right now.
Just increase that %.
Or something even simpler:
All enemies standing on Consecration take increased damage from all abilities.
Right now, there’s one that’s the exact opposite.
Consecration receives a damage buff based on enemies affected by DS (which seems ridiculous to me).
Any damage amp related to Consecration is “persona non grata”.
Nobodies wants that BS.
The less we see of consecration the better.
It found its niche as an automatic trigger with BoJ, we don’t need the power budget of the spec diverted to a stationary spell in any way shape or form.
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Not to mention that it’s the most impractical it’s ever been seeing as if the tank moves at all to kite out of an enemy mobs AOE, that equates to jack squat and BoJ cool down makes reapplication a PITA. No thanks.
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So the solution is simple:
Increase the % of damage that enemies affected by Dawnlight receive.
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Theoretically it should. Wowhead has it as a 3rd priority behind strength and mastery so it would lean that it has a value for both Templar and Herald that it didn’t have in TWW. Now whether or not it actually helps with paladin dot damage you’d have to check for yourself. Either way I’d be interested to know.
That would be a good start, yes.
because herald needs a fundamental rework to be functional/not boring for ret
rn it just a hero tree that was built for holy in mind and ret as a afterthought.
right now herald isnt that behind with midnight mythic gear, so its fine numbers wise. but frankly herald is just really bad design wise and i cant stomach it personally
idk why yall are talking about stats rn tho, cause come midnight, your just going to put the highest ilvl thing you have for both hero trees. the difference between stats is extremely minimal and shouldnt be something to focus on unless your doing top top top end content
Too bad, Im tird of playing herald in pvp so make templar viable instead