Probably not. If you were, you wouldn’t advocate the removal of the most played end-game pillar without at least suggesting a replacement.
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Boy I hope so. Dungeons on a timer was a horrible idea from the beginning and need to go away ASAP.
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Just gotta increase the difficulty by 3-4 key levels to compensate for having all the time in the world and cd’s up for every pull then. Enjoy 2 hour dungeons.
Unless you just want it to remain as it is but without a timer that is, then enjoy free gear and effortless dungeons I guess.
I bet you. More people are on Delves than Raids. People are doing the easiest way to Loot Upgrades and that’s Delves.
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It’s long overdue
People keep saying this, yet, while I admit there are some that would do that, I have a feeling most would still try to keep dungeon runs as short as possible. Keep in mind, even without a timer, people still mass pull and try to speed run, without waiting for CDs.
There is also the fact that if Blizzard removed the timer, or, more likely, just made it a factor and not THE factor, they could still make a way so that players could not stand around for any length of time outside of waiting for people to rez or run back.
Unless you want to effectively nerf dungeons (keep the same difficulty but remove the timer), the runs will have to be either slower, or the keys will be a few levels lower. If you compensate for the missing timer by buffing the keys it’s inevitable that you’ll have to wait for cd’s for certain pulls.
It is a factor, not the factor. You’re also limited by how much survivability you have. If you weren’t, then you’d be able to pull boss to boss in all dungeons. People are timing 10s in s1 gear this week, granted there’s not many of them who posess the skill do that, but there are people doing it. Just because the rest of us aren’t as skilled, that doesn’t mean that the timer is “too tight”.
Also, why would tanks/healers even bother using the queue system when they practically got instant invites through the regular system? A system where they can be picky about their groups, and increase the likelihood of success. Which competent tank/healer would ever choose to go with a system they have lesss control in?
Certain pulls, yes, but some do that anyway now with the timer, but what you claimed was:
Let me put it this way, I doubt anyone would wait for VDs every single pull as they wither have something else to get to (life) or they are trying to get as many as possible done.
And you just proved an inability to think, I am one that has argued replacing the timer as being the determining factor to a more score based for if a key succeeds or not, and I would still be using the time as a factor, the other 2 would be mob % (last boss would mark the end of the dungeon) and deaths (more deaths=less score_
It’s unsurprising to me that Ion the raiding guy would want the best gear to come from raids. But you don’t need BIS to achieve seasonal goals or be viable.
Sigh
Alright, I’ll explain the effects of no timer and infinite scaling to you.
Since the timer is gone with your suggestion, people will be able to climb much higher. Eventually you’ll reach a key level where everything is simply to dangerous to be handled without maximum hard cc, offensive cd’s, and bloodlust. That means that because of infinite scaling, a pack of 5 mobs may very likely be cc’d into taking 1 mob at a time from that pack. This might happen in about a +35 or a +40 key, but it will happen in the highest keys people are doing since you can wait for cd’s when there is no timer.
Sure, in a trivial key such as a +10 people might just slow down a notch instead of waiting for cd’s. After all, you nerf dungeons an extreme amount by removing the pressure a timer brings, so for people who aren’t pushing it’ll be a much appreciated nerf.
You’re right about me saying certain pulls after I’ve said every pull. The proper wording would be “any pull that poses even a miniscule amount of threat”. If it’s a pull where the mobs are basically target dummies compared to the other pulls in the dungeons, I’m sure people won’t wait for cd’s.
Cool story, that’s not the part I’ve replied to. I’ve replied based on the information that’s been given by you in the comment you made.
No need to be rude about it, I know the eventual effects of no timer and infinite scaling, but I also know a few things about people.
They would not have increase difficulty just rewards/rating, like what currently rewards loot and rating for a 3 might take a 8 with no timer.
Just like, for me and others like me, the proper wording for your argument on people pushing to the point where you more or less have to wait for CDs for every pull is “for the insane among the players, there are those that will push it to the extreme, when most will stop when the rewards do, or when they feel like it just is not worth it”. However, with infinite scaling, and no timer, would there not also be a level where even white/auto attack damage could one shot even through defensive CDs?
I actually find the challenge in M+ not to be the timer, most are loose enough to allow for some mistakes, but balancing speed with, as you yourself said, survivability and ability of the group. But then I am one of those that has seen the one who focuses just on the timer (go go go) wipe the group and cause the timer to be failed.
I also mentioned that Blizzard could replace the timer with something else, like say a mechanic that increases enemy health and damage done by a % the longer you are in the dungeon, or a poison/disease that decreases player health/damage done the longer the dungeon takes.
One could say either is still a timer, but when you think about it, all high end group content, outside of delves, has a timer of a kind, for fights (enrage timers) if nothing else.
This is effectively increased difficulty, since you’re buffing a 3 into an 8.
Theoretically yes, but that exists today too because of infinite scaling, it has nothing to do with the timer. Even if you remove the timer you won’t reach that key level, since there will be other unavoidable damage that one shots you through defensives before the white swings are strong enough to do that.
But people will also find their personal limit in different stages, so this playstyle will trickle down into lower keys too. If someone is struggling in a +10, they will slow down substantially to get through with cd’s.
Removing the timer promotes dungeon crawling, and whilst that might be fun for some people, the majority of players aren’t interested in staying in dungeons for one or several hours. It’ll inevitably lead to a decline in particiation, unless you make the best rewards easy enough to obtain that you won’t have to make use of the missing timer.
This promotes the “Go-go-go” mentality even further since the slower you’ll go, the harder the dungeon becomes. If you think that mentality is a problem today, you’ll only make it worse with this change.
That’s because having a timer gives some meaning to the DPS role too. If you remove the timer and make survivability the key factor you’ll just turn the meta into 4 tanks and 1 healer, since there’s no need for a DPS in progress keys.
And what have I been saying?
You, and many like you, argue around what is likely to be a minority, while I argue around what is likely to be the majority. There are reasons why one common argument against those that complain about going too fast or too slow is “form your own group”. Maybe removing the timer will get some to realize their preferred style is not popular.
I know, but sometimes some need to introduce possible monkey paw moves as a “be careful what you wish for”. Personally I don’t want the timer removed, never have, I just want the idea of “the way to succeed is to be the most efficient” to be made evident.
Most of my ideas for changing the system have been more (and assume a max score of 100 for time and mobs here):
Timer: 3 chest=100 points, 2 chest=75 points, 1 chest=50 points, <10 over=25 points, >10% over=0
Mobs: 1%=1 point
Deaths: -5/-15 (depending on affixes) per death
Final scoring:
200 points=+4
175-199=+3
150-174=+2
125-149=+1
100-124=no change/0 (no progress, but no regress either)
75-99=-1
50-74=-2
25-49=-3
0-24=-4
When it comes to the io, all they would have to do is turn the key level into a % to multiply the final score by (a +2=20%, a +3=30%, +4=40%, and so on).
The thing is, with a system like this, a survivability meta (4 tanks, 1 healer) would likely get to a point they would be stuck at a key level because they lack the damage to progress but have the survivability to always land in that no change range.