You seem very adamant about Warlock and your skills. Could you please stream or record your gameplay?
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I donāt understand why you are posting Vanilla and classic information in a Season of discovery forum. Allot of us are well aware of what specs are good there, but judging by you admitting that you donāt Drain Life, it shows you are not playing SoD phase 2 OR you are playing it like itās not SoD. With that drain life for instance, it would be one of your highest damaging abilities, while allowing you to get close enough to curse of tongues, and from it, you get an extra 4% chance per second to nightfall proc. You are missing out on so much be cause you are not truly considering Runes and their effectiveness.
You are giving facts and bulging caps talking about level 60 builds. We are 40 and canāt get increased range in both Affliction and Destruction at the same time.
I enjoy reading your high horse perspective because itās wrong in the context of SoD phase 2. For instance, in my current spec, Drain Life is my #1 damage dealing ability, as I kill anyone I desire in 1v1, and in large scale PvP fights, getting closer does not in fact get me killed. If anything, getting closer gets a few melee on me, whom I pull away from their team, killing them if they follow. If you are truly sitting max range, keeping dots up, yet no Drain Life with rune, then your damage is getting out healed by Prayer of Mending and/or Druid hots like nothing. There is a reason you see no Affliction Warlocks in battlegrounds unless they are in Meta form.
Do you really not know that players can be killed in the length of a global, meaning the player can be killed in that time? Being able to global a target every 4 seconds is not true, but pretending it is, that means you are Destruction, which as mentioned, you are trading those kills for being killable yourself. When I say killable, I mean Rogues will kill you 100% every single time and you can and will do nothing about it, just to flex kills at max range. I should adapt to the meta game? As you neglect your top performing runes? Got it. I like how you framed the scenario, now let me frame the reality: I overextend on purpose, spell locking that heal which was going onto a melee and then Tongues literally every single caster they have. By this time, Iām a prime target without Meta form so Iām swarmed as the focus target āon purpose by meā. I then soak that damage with Soul Link, Shadow Ward, Health Stone, and my spell resistance from Master Demonologist, as I pull the melee to be killed by my team. When doing this Iām successful the majority of games, aside from the ones whom we all lose because various factors.
Sounds like I just came in and saved the day. Heck yeah, I did that. If I played Affliction or Destruction like you, the first Rogue that opened on me, regardless of my positioning, would kill me regardless of me or my teams actions 90% of the time. With my spec, I take the Rogue opening, even if itās a stun while team membered are also attacking me.
Bad eh? Thatās why multi rank 1 streamers such as Ziqo are going to play Arcane in the upcoming $20k tournament, because itās bad.
Odd way to view the way the playing field of WoW has naturally unfolded for over 20 years.
I donāt really get your angle. Iām posting for Warlocks, including yourself, in hopes to get Affliction and Destruction BUFFED. Why would you come in arguing with me that Affliction and Destruction is fine and how well you do with them? You donāt want your specs buffed? Your experience is not my experience and you seem to be a one of from a series of people who have agreed with me. Your argument is that you do not want a buff to your spec, because you can stand 36 yards away, and with the help of your team, you feel okay right now? Iām pretty sure everyone would be okay if they played/thought like that.
I agree yet Drosul over here says we are full of crap and he wants to rebuttal my desire to get the specs defenses buffed a little.
This isnāt Classic Era. A VW is not enough to beat Rogues. Without being in meta and having a drain life up, you will get deleted instantly. The burst meta is insane.
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You are absolutely right about trying to get into range to use Drain Life. It just is not worth it because you are extremely vulnerable to getting bursted down.
Unfortunately, trying to load up our DoTs on the enemy team is just not worth the time and mana either. The amount of damage that all of our DoTs will do on a single target is dwarfed by the burst everyone else is outputting. Instant heals, passive heals, and increased health pools easily nullify them.
There is no dispel protection on any of our DoTs either. Void Plague and Shadow Word: Pain are so much better than all of our DoTs combined. They can be unloaded faster onto the enemy team and each alone do enough damage to put pressure on healers. Heck, they are even more mana efficient from the changes made to Shadowform. Void Plague being a disease reduces the number of people that can remove it. Even a Mageās Living Bomb has some dispel protection.
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Because the fundemental mechanics of the class are exactly the same. Warlock really hasnāt changedā¦ you just do more damage now.
No, itās showing that YOU are bad at positioning your warlock, and overextending constantly to pigeon hole a mediocre spell into your toolkit. Even as deep affliction, where you are basically forced to snag master channeler because the chest runes are lackluster and you are kind of forced to take master channeler, you still only cast it defensively, when something pushes to you. The only class you run in to cast drain life on is a hunter, and even then only when youāre trying to dead zone him (and itās not like ranged hunters are that scary in p2, Iād honestly rather have him at range than in melee right now)
Iām primarily play destroā¦ Nothing in the game outheals globaling people. But affliction struggling vs dispellers or good healing isnāt exactly breaking newsā¦and Meta Form has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this context. If anything all it does is lower your potential output.
In a dueling tournamentā¦ where you get the benefit of resetting all your cds between duelsā¦ Duels do not matter. Weāve already been over this. If duels mattered, vanilla era would have been dominated by soul link warlocksā¦ but they arenāt because soul link is a garbage spec to bring into a bg because it sacrifices massive amounts of killing power to be slightly more tankyā¦ except itās not even really tankier in group pvp, because you have to lose your range advantage to get soul link, and that range advantage provides you with DRAMATICALLY more survivability than soul link does.
My angle is that Destro is already a top 3 pve damage spec, and already capable of doing double any target in the gameās healthbar in a global.
Affliction, in pvp, actually does rediculous overall damage, though itās admittedly not the most effective right now, since itās a āburst centric game metaāā¦ The spec itself isnāt broken per se, however.
All buffing us does is ignore the fundemental problem with p2 in general: Damage is too damn high. The entire game needs to be slowed down. A global pvp damage nerf should be impliemented, and you can cut healing with it, to prevent the problem with p1 where healers became far too strong. Affliction will improve just by nature of the game slowing down enough for dots to do their jobā¦ Destro will lose burst, but again, itās already bursting too hard right now. People getting globaled constantly isnāt something destro builds should be doing constantly before ~BWL level gear.
So no, I donāt want Warlocks buffed, because all thatās going to do is get us nerfed later (and the nerf bat is never gentle)ā¦ Weāre ALREADY a strong class if you actually know what youāre doing in pvp.
I love Affliction and Iād love to play an Affliction focused spec in PVP and PVE so I agree. Buff at least the damage bonus aspect of Haunt so our DoTās donāt just tickle and if Blizz really wants to help also buff the initial damage.
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Yeah you can beat anyone 1v1 if you get a seduce in ,get in max range incrinate +bolt + immo+conflag ,dead . Iāve done it to every class . Git gud
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Destro is kind of a one trick pony imho. Yeah you seduce people and blow them up, but what happens when that seduce gets trinketed? Usually a dead warlock.
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Alliance trying to use Seduce or Fear on anyone playing Undeadā¦
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nice try kid heh heh heh snort
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Seduce is nearly worthless in battlegrounds. You arenāt going to be able to ensure that 9-14 other people donāt break your CC>
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Reduce again , then fear
Who is letting you seduce?
No one cause the succ is exposed and the vanilla cast time takes forever
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We are talking about SoD phase 2 right? You canāt possibly think this.
Do you think that Rogues have to walk through the frontline not in stealth in order to get to you or something? You can hug that 36 yard line so bad that if your target goes back 1 yard you are out of range, a Rogue is still going to 100-0 you and there is nothing you can do about it, meaning my point still stands.
I bet you enjoy being low on the damage meters as Affliction with your playstyle. If your playstyle was good, others would vouch. Instead, they are mostly Demons.
I agreed with this and do this myself with my secondary build but my point still stands that, in order to do it, you are a sitting duck to Rogues.
The issue I mentioned in opening statement was not losing to dispellers or good healers, it was dying in openers to melee, like say, Rogues.
Actually I am the opening poster. Iām the one who decided what topic we were all going to talk about. You donāt go to a post about a specific topic and then talk about whatever you want too. I specifically brought up Meta form, meaning it literally IS part of the context.
I agree, we found common ground.
You mean like how the game goes 24 hours a day in which case you can use your spells, then afk or log until they reset, case in point, watch Payo any day of the week.
Obviously to you. To others they matter, in fact allot of money is on the line proving it.
This way of thinking is showing a neuroplasticity problem on your behalf. Humans go through ideas over and over again, nothing being off limits to the imagination. You donāt say something, it come up again, then be like āweāve been over thisā like some old person.
It matters for those who are getting ready for a dueling tournament with a grand prize of $20,000. It matters for streamers who host dueling events and for the thousands around the world who view and enjoy that content.
Good thing my post has nothing to do with promoting Soul Link right? Meaning, your bias against Soul Link actually plays in to my opening point about most players opting to go Meta form and/or take Soul link in order to survive this meta and we, as Warlocks, do not like it. My personal spec has nothing to do with my opening post.
Cool, well Iām talking about PvP, itās part of the title of the post.
You can press one button and deal 4600 damage consistently? Receipts please.
More common ground.
I donāt think so. I like a fast meta and itās what made classic feel better than retail.
I donāt think so, I like the damage, and want āfor instanceā, Rogues to drop people fast like that. All Iām asking for is a teeny tiny tweak to allow a prepared Affliction or Destruction some counter play like old times. Right now and for the first time in WoW, as Destruction for instance, I canāt even get a seduce, fear, or bomb off to help me, literally ever. I enjoy dropping people with Destro like you but I refuse to kneel to Rogues.
If you havenāt noticed, SoD makes each phase as if you are max level. The stats and numbers are as if we are max level. Itās the beauty of SoD IMO.
You must come from retail. Warlocks have always been fine in classic and are only better now. We are only half way to max level, everyone is taking it so seriously.
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You must not understand the intent of SoD. Itās not āwell, who cares about the balance right now because we are not max levelā. in SoD phase 1, 25 was max level, meaning Blizzard does balance around phase 1. Then phase 2, etc. They are not just waiting for it to overall come together at 60, because that would be bad game design, since we are forced to sit at 25/40 for set periods of time.
Nah you are misunderstanding the purpose of SoD. Itās to enjoy the process. Classic has NEVER been balanced.
I was being nice but ima be real w you nowā¦ if you think Warlock is bad in PvP itās 100% a skill issue. Time to head to the mountains and train.
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Itās nice to see you just give up on Blizzard in their forever attempts to balance.
I never said Warlocks were bad in PvP. I said, the majority of Warlocks are being forced into taking the Meta rune and/or Soul Link in order to survive even openers. I would love to see some video content from you, consistently beating a Rogue or even giving him a run for his coin. My contention is that it should be a fight, not a blow out. If you play Affliction or Destruction, you are not fairing well vs Rogues right now. Not like classic times, but I mean heavy balanced in the Rogues favor.
Also, āyou must come from retailā is how you opened on me which was belittling to me. I take it unfavorably and that triggers you to now ābe realā. Iām sure you always wanted to be real, so be real.
Edit: Drosul has been typing so long now that he must be writing a book. Iām going to sleep now so Iāll reply to it tomorrow.
The fact that you think things are dramatically different because of runes says more about you than it does meā¦ Oh no, I cast a green bolt of death instead of a purple bolt of death, or a fiery ball of death. SO DIFFERENT. Still chasing it with immolate/conflag or searing pain/sburnā¦ Itās the exact same playstyle, itās nearly the exact same rotation, just replacing the main nuke with a harder hitting version of a different colorā¦
Affliction? Also the sameā¦dot dot dot, next target dot dot dotā¦ Oh wait, itās sod, you also have to haunt one of those targets every haunt cdā¦ SUPER DIFFERENT. CANāT COPE WITH THESE āCRAZY CHANGESā
Well Iād be alive, and the opposing team will be covered in dots, just like affliction has been doing for 20 years nowā¦ while youāll be overextended and dead apparently.
Positioning issue. Your team should be immediately turning and dumpstering any rogue on you, else you can use a succubus for a temporary self peel.
Then start actually focusing on a specific issue. DUELS, WPVP, or BGSā¦ The solution for duels is soul link, which is terrible in BGs. Itās good for wpvp, but can be countered by classes with more than 30 yard range that can also snare.
For BGs, if you arenāt Destro or Affliction, you are actively sabotaging your team. The lone exception is potentially base sitting AB as soul link. If you are metamorphasis runed, you are actively sabotaging your team, unless again sitting bases in AB or flag carrying wsg (and even in ab, being meta form opens you to 2 new forms of cc and can get bases ninjad)
I literally donāt even understand your argument hereā¦ An arcane mage can dumpster one person per mana bar, and arcane power cdā¦ They get dumpstered every single engagement until their cds are back. Theyāre actually balanced around the cd existing. This is what duelists fail to grasp.
Yeah it matters to a bunch of degenerates who are try to make their living off wow pvp by promoting aspects of it that donāt matter, complete with made up rulesets specifically to limit certain classes/specs because dueling has never been what the game has been balanced around. Things like letting a warrior land a change to open a duel, or waiting for peopleās cooldowns to fully reset between matches isnāt something that happens outside of dueling. Duels also involve being tethered to a central point, without ability to fully kite away.
Globaled =/= 1 shot. Destroās burst combo isnāt 1 spell, itās 3 spells, all of which land within a tenth of a second of one another. Though under extremely unrealistic and specific circumstances, destro can 1 shot people as well.
Is your character naked? The only time in SoD Iāve ever been globaled by a rogue they crit ambush, applied poison on their first attack, and then also crit mutilate (both hits)ā¦ The odds of that being commonplace are astronomically low, as almost no rogues currently spec into improved ambush currently.
I can literally wear 3pc irradiated set (-35 stamina) while BGing and still not have problems with rogues or anyone else. I genuinely donāt understand how someone with as much claimed pvp experience as you have is struggling so hard. Rogues arenāt even in the top 5 of things that I worry about in bgs.