Blizzard has lost sight of what Normal Flex raids are intended to do

Community General Discussion
21

People have low expectations for normal because N CN and N SoD were knocked out in the first week by many people.

22

i wonder if they were cleared in the first week by their target audience, though


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23

Seemed harder? Mechanically than past tiers after the first 5 bosses, but the damage checks barely exist. The first 5 bosses without tier set legit just feel like additional trash mob filler though. Maybe it was Anduin that made it seem that way, idk.

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24

True. Heroic raiders powered through them.

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25

What you said is that the only problem is that normal raiders were expecting to finish it the first week. Which absolutely nobody has said. But you.

You also said it is supposed to be “progression”, which means there’s no place in your game for grandma with vision difficulties, a new player who hasn’t ground out 2 legendaries and is ready to dive into that tier as soon as he buys ksm


Yeah, whatever you want to claim. The raid is not tuned for its former target demographic if it’s supposed to be hardcore progression.

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26

who said “hardcore progression”?

progression just means taking time to progress through the raid. it doesn’t mean you can’t bring friends. it doesn’t mean you have to spend hours optimizing everything. it just means you should expect to spend time and effort, not just expect bosses to fall over. that’s all.

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27

No that’s not what they are saying

My guild is a family and friends guild, we have grandma’s and grandads in the team.

We raid normal mode

We enjoy the challenge and think the current raid is set at a good difficulty

Just because your family and friends want a push over raid don’t assume the rest of do as well-- that’s what lfr is for

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28

Mmmm.

Honestly, I’ve felt for a long time that Normal has a rather pointless Niche. If “friends and family” is supposed to mean “super casuals with no gear, bad builds, and also half of them are literally disabled”
 then I guess I don’t see why LFR isn’t a more appropriate difficulty for them?

Of course, jumping into a randomly generated group isn’t ideal.

If Normal went out the window and LFR suddenly got treated as a standard difficulty (in that you can go in with 10 people if you want without it auto-filling with an extra 15), would that really be unacceptable?

Is it the difficulty or the automated matchmaking element that marks it as not what you’re looking for?

Note: I’m not saying the current raid isn’t tuned to be more difficult than previous Normal Raids. Just talking generally.

29

This is my problem with this raid tier. Everything will likely fix itself soon, but it needs to be noted it was a problem early on. The power gain we are arbitrarily getting in two days should have come out with the raid since basically all pve content this patch was tuned with it in mind anyway.

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30

Further to my comments above

We often spend whole nights wiping to the same boss, even multiple nights. Back in WoD we wiped for eight weeks on blackhand. That’s 16 nights at 3 hours a night before we downed it.

My estimate is we will clear current raid in around 3 months. We will then start heroic which we may clear if the tier goes for around 12 months.

That’s what raiding is all about. Challenge

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31

Again, where are all the threads and posts where people were demanding that bosses be tuned to “just fall over”?

There weren’t any.

The idea that people should be able to bring undergeared or disabled “friends and family” when at the same time you’re claiming they have been insisting on all bosses falling over dead on the first run is utter dreck.

With current tuning, those people won’t be able to bring grandma. In order to achieve the “progression” you are insisting on, they will be limiting their raid to members who have ground out all the gear, run multiple mythic+ weekly, unlocked both legendaries and gotten tier, which it’s tuned for.

There’s no place for grandma in your vision of the future of normal raiding.

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32

Would you have wiped 8 weeks on one boss during wod where you were waiting on time-gated mandatory legendaries and time-gated tier that the raid was tuned for? How many members would you have lost in those 8 weeks?

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33

Your lucky the grandma’s in my guild don’t bother with the forums. They would get banned for telling you off in no uncertain terms what they think about that statement.

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34

we are getting double legendary in like 3 days why bother posting this short story.

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Yes. Because that’s raiding and no one even thought about quitting

36

okay, I’ll try again. raiding isn’t just about getting gear. i know, that’s heresy in this forum, but hear me out. it’s about EXECUTION. the reason bosses take multiple pulls to kill, even if your numbers are fine, is because your group needs PRACTICE to learn the mechanics. on pull one, it’s a disaster. by pull twenty, people are getting it. by pull fifty, you’re within striking range of a kill. none of that has anything to do with minmaxing or tier sets or 278 conduits or whatever else.

are you saying your grandma can’t improve with practice? i personally think more highly of your family members. give her a chance! :angel:

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37

What numbers checks are you failing, that aren’t just people dying early or not playing their class in a way that does damage? Are adds living too long because people aren’t swapping to them? This raid has felt more like a mechanics check than a numbers check, so your proposed buffs won’t address the cause of most wipes imo.

This ignores the fact that cypher gear will go up to 252. Also, having a system that only works in normal is a really weird idea, and might come off to some as blizzard saying that normal raiders need help to clear normal, because they added a system that only buffs them in normal mode.

38

So essentially we are asking for normal ilvl gear with LFR difficulty bosses. Is that the gist?

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39

Why blizzard hasnt nerfed normal yet?

I just dont see the downside to it, the CE and rwf players only do normal until they have tier so it won’t effect them at all. If anything I’d love to smash out normal clear in less than an hour so we can actually prog.

Semi hardcore guilds will progress into heroic easier and hit a wall when they do instead of being stuck on normal.

Family/friend guilds could actually progress through the content and keep them engaged and maybe even start doing a couple of heroic bosses.

While they’re at it buff the drop rate in normal as well so everyone is happy.

Normal tier will never be bis so why are they making it so hard to acquire for the general population?

40

Probably because nothing before anduin needs it.