i think if its a rune, i could see at least the removal re-sealing be a great addition as it would help paladins in both pvp and parsing as that would free up some GCD economy
This might be a surprise to you, but WF ICD was added from the getgo in Classic. The only caster getting 1shot has 1300 health.
Thatâs why Enhancement didnât appear in wow Classic. (I really wanted to be enhance in vanilla⌠but it was just worthless- ended up having to be elemental.)
Literally everything we do is on the full GCDâŚincluding totems.
Imagine having to waste mana and a GCD to drop every single totem.
(Totems donât stay with meâŚso if the fight moves, as it always does, itâs dispelled, or I can move it once every 10 secondsâŚfor a GCD.)
You might get sympathy from me if the judgement was on the GCD⌠but as it is, you can macro your judgement button to reapply the seal⌠or just apply the seal if thereâs none on it.
if the 1300 instaproc isnt killing them, im sure a shock following it or your insta chain lightning will
Fun fact, I played enhance for a bit and swapped to Ele in Classic, even had an orange parse on Chromaggus and it was just my alt. I could have played either. My guild that was speed clearing all raids and was in the top 3 of all horde guilds on the server(s) we were on and top 25 in the world for speed clearing AQ40 without buffs had a dedicated enhance shaman.
I have played this game for nearly 20 years and have played every single class except Evoker extensively. Enhance is not that weak if you play correctly. The biggest issue it has in Era is the lack of threat reduction.
why is this thread all a sudden about how overpowered shamans are? believe it or not its possible to discuss paladins without having to mention their more loved older brother.
I get it. shamans are overpowered and always will be, nerf or not. but this thread is to discuss ways to make seals and judgement less wonky and more on par with shaman shocks and imbues.
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Thatâs the usual story.
Soo 300 DPS? 350?
This is nice and all, but weâre talking about PvP.
Enhancement shamans in Classic BGs are just the sad people who saw the pre-ICD highlights meme video and tried to recreate it for a week before realizing that was never happeningâŚand switching to Ele or rerolling.
blame it on how insecure us hordies are prbly, if we arent winning, we arent happy lol
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If only that were limited to the horde.
During Shaman Boogieman days, AB queues were at 10-30 minutes because Alliance wouldnât play against Shamans âauto-loseâ (Even if it wasnât the case.)
No, more like 760+. Wonât let me link my Shaman from Classic Era warcraft logs, but feel free to look up Dalnek on Kurinnaxx through the WOTLK and change it to Classic BWL.
You swap from PVE to PVP. Pick a lane. Enhance was used in PVP and always has been. Just because you had bad experiences doesnât fundamentally change the argument I have made that MSW isnât a core mechanic as the game originally existed without it and shamans werenât designed with it in mind.
Paladins were designed with seal/judgement as itâs system with auras.
Shamans were designed with weapon imbues and totems. Enhance literally having several talents that prop up weapon imbues and each spec having some sort of totem support.
Paladins can have their seals completely removed meaning they cannot cast judgement. Itâs their entire combat rotation being removed from the game.
Totems have to at least be targeted and take several global cds to completely remove. You can still be dangerous in PVP without totems down.
What a ridiculous argument you are trying to make really.
Yes to everything but the range increase
You cannot do that here. The forums are eternally BTFOâd by Divine Shield. Thatâs it. They cannot handle a world where Paladins arenât a free kill and it makes them seethe to their core.
They shouldnât either - homogenization ruins the game. But this forum isnt about them is it?
I looked it up.
780 is nice, but it seems that was as elemental at least according to the icon. The fights are archived so I canât see damage sources to determine it actually being elemental.
Your one Enhance parse that I see was 210 DPS on Chrom. (Which tracks, since even now in Era Enhance Max Parse is about 400 damage.)
I have only been discussing PvP.
Can you quote where I was discussing PvE and switched to PvP?
I was there in the Classic BGsâŚ(Not to be confused with 2004 vanilla where Enhance was strong before the âShaman Patchâ
95/100 Shamans you saw in classic BGs were Elemental/Resto. (Particularly "Ele Resto)
Hence their judgements not being on the GCD so seals could be reapplied immediatelyâŚ
Yeah, weapon imbues are their ONLY mechanic in Classic. (Enhance has 1, very bad, melee button in classic.)
Totems are just party buffs, which have to be replaced everytime. (Doesnât follow around like Auras)
Exorcism
Crusader Strike
Divine Storm, they all still work without a seal.
They also took exactly as many GCDs to place, and then more to move or replace as the fight moves.
Just like a Paladin without a seal.
Youâre the one pretending temporarily losing one ability and a weapon buff turns off paladinâŚ
(Also, put a sharpening stone on your weapon, it canât be purged.)
I was stating that I had swapped from Enhance to Ele and that I did play a shaman.
I misunderstood where you were going when you said âenhance didnât appear in Classicâ which is fundamentally not true. In regards to both PVE and PVP. Quotes for some reason sometimes bug my posts out. Just like sometimes I can post links, other times I canât.
Judgement may not being on the GCD, but they cost a lot of mana to apply. Considering the average ret paladin at 60 is going to have ~2200 mana at best, it is extremely punishing to have to reapply it.
Totems are still a class mechanic. I am aware they donât move. I have always been on the side of they should be moveable.
None of those spells work in the base game. While they work just fine in SoD, so does your Stormstrike, Weapon Imbues, and totems. There is no counterplay outside of disarm in these regards. Seals can be purged/dispelled. Totems have to be targeted to be removed, meaning you are no longer focusing the Shaman and you have to deal damage to remove them.
Again, GCDs where you are not actually hitting the shaman, but are trying to stop them from applying big buffs to the group/themselves. You can purge a paladin once or twice and continue to attack them while the paladin has to reapply the seal that can be removed instantly again or do virtually no damage.
Paladins without a seal up are doing a fraction of the damage they are capable of. If you lose a totem, itâs far less damaging to you. You also canât have your weapon imbues removed.
If you are comparing Seals and Shaman imbues to sharpening stones, this is a lost cause. I suggest as you have tried to suggest about shamans, and actually play the class. Itâs debilitating to lose a Seal as again, it shuts down the entire core combat mechanic for Paladins.
i think the judgement base range should at least be the same as holy shock or shaman shocks. if not, at least make the enlightened judgements rune actually useful. putting it in the same slot as infusion and sheath is silly
People actually do this?
Paladin reapplies and then it gets dispelled again?
Use rank 1. SoC gains no increase in damage from higher ranks, only the judgment portion does and it is very minimal. Only about a difference of 100 damage between rank 1 and 5 (lvl 60).
Iâm very aware that R1 does the same thing. It still doesnât mean that wasting a global and having your entire combat abilities removed from the game arenât punishing. If they couldnât be removed by purge, youâd not have to spend that mana on it.
I know, thatâs what usually happens, as I said previously.
PvE Side:
There are 540 Total Parses for enhancement Shaman in Naxx in the last 2 weeks.
The only class with fewer DPS Parses is Ret Paladin, lol.
PvP Side:
Donât have stats, so itâll be anecdotal, but I remember it being remarkable seeing an enhance shaman in PvP in classic. Including one madlad that tried to tank Vann. (It went poorly.)
I just never try.
The only links Iâm able to post are links to other forum topics, through the link system within the forums.
Purge is twice as expensive as Seal of Martyrdom and 20 mana less than Seal of Righteousness. (97 Mana for Purge 2, vs about 40 manage for SoM, and 120 for SoR)
I wish I could just put them on my belt and carry them aroundâŚlol
While weâre referencing Classic in regards to just how trash enhancement is in it, the balance discussion here only applies to SoD.
For the same GCD as it takes to replace them and as much or more mana to do so.
Most people just move the fight away from the totem⌠itâs only 20 yard range. (Player base speed is 10yd/second) And the Enhancement Shaman is coming with you. Itâs faster to just out range them, and doesnât require a GCD. If the SHaman wants to move the totems to the new place, thatâs another GCD and a 10 second CD.
See above.
- Purge is also on the GCD, and just as expensive to do.
- Seal does add considerable extra damage, but itâs not crippling to hit without it while you reapply it.
Martyrdom adds 50% weapon damage⌠if you go a melee attack or 2 without it, youâll be fine.
The Shaman constantly spamming purge on you would be wasting their mana, and literally doing nothing else while they do it.
The totems are not usually worth dropping because people just outrange them in literally 2 seconds, they donât even neeed to spend a GCD or mana invalidating them.
Youâre comparing something that can only have the imbue on it it, to something that can be on the weapon in addition to other items.
The comparison is that Seal works WITH Sharpening stones, Imbues cannot have Sharpening stones.
(And Seals also work with WS if you have a cat aroundâŚ)
Shaman Imbue: WF can can cause multiple hits with increased AP.
Cannot be dispelled
Cannot be used with Sharpening Stone or Wizard Oil.
Paladin Seal of Martyrdom
Causes 50% extra weapon damage (while hurting the paladin for 10%)
Can be dispelled at cost of GCD and 7% of mana, and reapplied for 2-3% of mana
Can be used with Sharpening Stone or with WF.
(Have you ever experienced the Paladin slapping you with SoM infused WS extra attack? It hurts us a lot more than it hurts them.)
It takes a global and twice as much mana to take it off, it takes a global and half as much mana to put it back on.
I donât bother purge spamming Paladins because it Iâm spending more mana than they are to do it.
Seal adds damage and enables JudgementâŚ
Youâre being hyperbolic to a silly degree.
And while weâre at itâŚone last thing:
MSW is dispellable, and we cannot just put it back on- and it is core to Enhancement PvP.
i can agree lol