Blizzard Gave up on Classes

(Bigdiggles) #23

As a Vengeance Demom Hunter, my spec feels much worse in BFA than the precious expansion.

Starting in the BFA beta I began giving feedback on the spec design problems and have been met with absolute radio silence.

Only recently has it been acknowledged that our spec has issues. And these could and should be resolved with a hot fix, not wait until 8.2 which many players will unsubscribe before it arrives.

(Noleafclover) #24

Here’s the thing, they really didn’t have time to fix both systems.

Azerite and the neck were the easiest and quickest fix they could make to make a difference.

Class design is so flawed from the the core, that there is no way to fix that this expansion. At least not for all off the classes.

I absolutely detest the class design and the homogenization of armor type this expansion. The move away from tier and class identity sucks something fierce.

I find myself playing this expansion like WoD. I log in on for raiding and that’s about it.

Shining from this expansion is the art team. They did a fantastic job, they always do.
I’m also a sucker for the lore and story, not excited about the sylvanas story line but still enjoying it.

(Rougaroux) #25

The problem is, if they would just leave classes the hell alone, there would be nothing to give up on but the fact is, they think they have to reinvent the damn wheel every expansion, thereby breaking the classes and making them worse.

(Allyriae) #26

This is really a double-edged sword for the developers.

On one hand, it’s nice knowing that classes are never really finished in the sense that there is perpetually hope to fix whatever issues arise.

On the other hand, it’s frustrating when things were perceived as working and then they change them between expansions (see arcane mage from Legion to BfA).

I think this is one of the big draws of Classic for many folks. Classes will be (for better or worse) a known quantity in Classic. It is known what you can expect from level 1 through Naxx in whatever role you choose. The downside is that you are locked-in to that role and playstyle.

I wouldn’t want to see a freeze in changes on Live from expansion to expansion, but I definitely want to see more incremental change, with more building rather than rebuilding.

I think the developers’ current policy of refusing to add new abilities and talents is creating more problems (boring classes) than it solves (ability bloat). We’re level 120! We’re legendary heroes! Why would we only know 4-5 abilities (mostly the same ones since level 20). At risk of ability bloat, yes, give us some new abilities!

(Tewa) #27

They could still make adjustments between (or during) expansions. But it’s totally unnecessary to gut everything and start over from scratch every expansion.

The only logical explanation is that they put a new guy in charge of classes each expansion, and as a vanity project he wants to rebuild everything the way HE thinks it should have been.

Taking Guardian as an example, it went from good in Legion to total garbage this expansion. That didn’t happen by accident, it happened because Blizzard gutted the class:
*Slow (that Guardian had since vanilla!!) pruned
*DPS cooldown pruned
*Magic mitigation pruned twice - one removed mid-expansion in Legion, and the other between expansions
*Fun things like extra procs pruned
*Self-healing gutted; essentially pruned
*Unique tank utility (loss of control resistance) pruned

And then Ion has the nerve to say they “dialed back” on the pruning this expansion, when the truth is anything but.

They went out of their way to RUIN the spec and now they’re “struggling” to figure out how to fix it again. It’s ridiculous. A troupe of birthday clowns has more logic and self-control than this…


Just played Ret on the PTR for the first time since they ‘reworked’ the Essences and it’s gone back to dead in the water again. With the Essence, it had wings procs coming up every so often that actually lasted a good bit of time, you had lots of uptime of it, the DPS was smooth and it was fast and fun. Now it’s slow, dull and weak again. Everyone knew it was never going to stay as strong as it was but they massively nerfed not just the power of the essence but the way it so effortlessly smoothed out an awfully designed spec. I hate it now.


except they’re not actually fixing Azerite, the essences are not touching the armor situation in regard to azerite traits themselves or sourcing the armor, they’re just moving the grind from armor to neck. The only thing that changes about armor is we’re not moving the ring unlocks forward as it has been since BfA lauch.

it’s not a fix, it’s new gating to replace the old gating- still have to grind neck levels, just now to use essences instead of re-unlocking the same traits on slightly higher ilvl azerite gear.

and they’re not fixing classes, so 0 for 2

(Drezwazluz) #30

Why would they every nerf these specs?

Feral and balance are good. Guardian is the only one sub-par compared to tanks such as prot, pala, dk, and monk, and it’s being buffed so :man_shrugging:

Two things. One, ret damage is very good. Two, ret has an average of around 55 apm with current builds, which puts it at eight fastest paced dps spec, 12th spec overall.


Yup right now if the current trend continues the essences continue to be tuned downward and only a handful of specs are being looked at currently.

I like the gradual approach towards tuning and balancing but the pace needs to pick up and expand in the next two PTR builds for the gradual approach towards tuning to work.

(Diecruxx) #32

Blizzard gave up on classes and I’m giving up on blizzard.

So…I gave SWTOR another shot a few weeks ago and have not logged back into WoW since. Having a blast and no ragrets. Not one… not even a letter.

The classes are balanced an fun to play. I can catach up on all the single player awesomeness and redo all the old content because of the level scaling.

Whats better is they are coming out with a major expansion in September. New flashpoints(Dungeons), Operations(raids), class abilities and more!

I’m also playing a ESO a little to get my RPG fix.

God bless competition.

Playing for 11 years and have no issue leaving at this point. Game play is trash.

So much passive damage. UHDK has a giant two hand sword and hits for 10-20k Festering Strikes. FDK has an ability called OBLITERATE which hits for nothing. Both spec top damage are DoTs and auto swings. How F-ing dumb and boring. Feels like playing a rogue. This just the tip of the ice burg.

Abilities have been taken away and baked into talents or crappy gimmick artifact systems.

Classes should have all their abilities at level cap and talents should buff said abilities.

Sub ends May 5th

(Plytofski) #33

You say that now because you simply haven’t reach the end. All MMOs have balancing problems, but the way they manifest and their importance is different. WoW’s issue with balance is how competitive it is while using a never-ending incremental gearing system. It just feels bad. You can be an arms warrior in full mythic gear and a decent outlaw rogue in mostly heroic gear will out damage you. It doesn’t feel good when you have to chase tiny upgrades and things this blaring appear.

In early WoW, there was still a big damage discrepancy, but being competitive in raid wasn’t the only way to play. You still had people bring ackward specs like hybrid shaman specs to bring melee buff totems and healing at the same time. On meters it was bad, but it didn’t really matter because the role was still useful. That style of role, the support role, has been removed from WoW.

(Varrow) #34

Class design is still a huge problem in this expansion, and one they don’t seem to think they need to address.

I like various essences, I like azerite. That doesn’t solve the glaring issues that many classes have. That doesn’t solve the absolutely ridiculous tuning imbalances we’ve faced for the entirety of season 2.

Whether that’s spec like Arms Warriors that are completely useless in both PvE and PvP. Whether that’s only a handful of classes having ALL the utility in the game. Whether that’s melee specs being worthless in raids (LOL CRUCIBLE). Whether that’s talents being dead (for like 3 expansions in a row).

It’s just ridiculous man. There’s no reason class design should be this bad, and it matters a lot. One spec might be a small part of the game, but it’s THE ENTIRE GAME to the person that wants to play that spec.

(Plytofski) #35

They’ve shown a complete inability to balance azerite traits, or they changed their design philosophies from the QnA’s and didn’t tell anyone.

They severely overbuffed azerite traits like Igneous potential by 150%, which made it provide almost 90% more damage than the next trait. Then they nerfed Echo of Elementals, which was already a weak trait due to a bug to where its just completely unusable. Some classes still don’t have desirable spec specific azerite traits (frost DKs for example).

There was no “choice” offered in azerite. There was clear best traits, making certain azerite armors feels bad to loot.

With how poorly they handled azerite tuning, I’m supposed to just trust they can handle another system layered on top of it?

I believe tuning was a big reason azerite was not well received. We were sold this system of customization, but in the end, it was chasing the same pieces with differences being so large that some pieces just aren’t usable. Hell, they made azerite armor in 15 ilvl increments so it would be easy to determine if something is an upgrade, yet multiple armors are not upgrades at 15 ilvls because trait disparity is so huge. Its also so bloated with useless traits (longstrider, bulwark of the masses, self reliance) that make you question who designed it. Tank azerite armor can be bricked if the defensive ring has bad traits.

(Varrow) #36

Tuning is a sh*t show this expansion, and is definitely impacting multiple areas of class design. Azerite for sure (especially earlier on, but even now still), talents, general desirability, M+ groups.


Giving some classes only with raid buffs was a big step backwards in my opinion.


definitely a change in focus- they absolutely do not care about ‘fixing’ anything, their promised fix is just more grinding now on a slightly different treadmill.

(Xaedys) #39

This. Everyone having raid buffs in WoD was fine. No one having them in Legion was fine. Half the classes having them and half not, very much not fine.

And frankly, they even admitted why they did it: those classes, they asserted, didn’t have enough utility (ya, DHs and monks are sparse on utility… /s), and the raid buffs were their (lazy) way of propping those classes up.

(Varrow) #40

God reading that tweet makes me angry. They took away so much, it’s insane.


This, though they only cared about Legion Class Design to avoid fallout from getting caught blatantly ignoring feedback and bug reports in Legion’s Alpha.


An article on eurogamer(dot)net [cant post links. sorry] from this month is talking about how John Hight, the executive producer and Vice President of WoW at Blizzard is actively trying to cut back on the crunch involved with game production.

It is my belief after reading this article that we are seeing little to no in-cycle class changes because of this desire to cut back on working hours.

full link to the article in question [just replace the (dot) with dots]