Blizzard Gave up on Classes

(Moonshayde) #1

The new essence system kind of confirms what we already knew, Blizzard doesn’t give a crap that many players just hate how their classes play. It’s not a damage issue, so giving us, in effect, a new trinket ability with the essences, they just don’t care to fix the fundamental flaw with BfA - awful class design. Why should I care about the content, if the vehicle by which I experience the content is fundamentally boring?

They rarely even bother to do balancing in BfA, and, even then, rather hotfix changes in like the past, they make us wait for a major patch.

They aren’t even trying, and it shows.

(Hasylla) #2

The Heart of Azeroth’s upcoming Essences include two that are “spec specific” and yet show how little they consider classes to be the problem. They did little more than copy/paste with resource and big cooldowns changes depending on the spec that is looking at it. I had hoped that at least the spec specific essences would be mildly interesting for class design, at least until they butcher classes heading into 9.0, but it looks like we should give up on that.

I liked WoD despite the general perception that it was a failed expansion. I guess how I feel about BfA is how many felt about WoD. I want it to be cut short, but I wonder if the same mistakes will be carried forward while pruning things that players thought were decent.


Very much agree, the majority of these spec/class specific ones are [Class Resource] or [Bliz’s idea of Spec Identity ability] and then a non-number modifier like a ‘smidgen’

And yet they’re being heralded as showing attention to each class and spec?

BfA remains an exercise in ActiBliz telling us the ‘correct’ way to play their game and 8.2 is shaping up to reinforce that.

(Beefköw) #4

You’re a bit too late on the post.

They already gave up prior to BFA alpha.


I’m inclined to agree that they gave up. They aren’t making any mechanical changes so they obviously think it’s fine or they are purposefully abandoning it.

I wonder if the Affliction developer even plays the spec in its current form. I tried it on the PTR and the new Heart abilities are just plain annoying to use because it adds yet another global (or two) to our burst rotation that is already ridiculous because of the whole UA application thing.

I’m so over UA in its current format. It’s bloody ridiculous.


It’s too much to hope for blizzard to nerf Bloods DKS, Fury Warriors, Priests shield spam and buff druid dmg. They are too busy with the new diablo to care.


They gave up probably 6-8 months ago on class design for BfA (around the time that they hired back Brian Holinka and put him in charge of combat design).

I assume they completely ditched BfA class design aside and just admitted defeat, cut their losses and then got him immediately working on class design / combat design for next expansion.

Anything we get for BfA in regards to class design changes will likely be insubstantial and more of a small bandaid fix rather than a core issue fix like adding in actual abilities that make the current lackluster and unsatisfying dps rotations more exciting (this new HoA system is a prime example of a minimal effort requirement bandaid fix to keep people appeased while they kill time until next expansion).

Pretty much seems like an all too familiar repeat of WoD expansion content where they basically gave up halfway through it, deemed it not worth saving, and started putting effort into next expansions content. Thats about the state of BfA class design.

(Kazäm) #8

Would have to greatly agree with the comment… they are not even trying for game balanace this xpac… and it does show. Honestly wonder how subs are doing… as the devs all fights with co’s trying to say its an old game thats dying rather then admit u ruined our own game by not putting anything back into it.


I would just like an answer as to why MM hunters can only begin cleaving when there are 3 enemies and why it’s limited to 6 enemies for everything other than multishot.

(Masoschism) #10

That one’s easy. It’s “unique.” The fact that it is also counter-intuitive, jarring in gameplay, frustrating, and puts us at the bottom of the totem pole for every single situation where there are any number of mobs other than 1,3,4,5, or 6 (all grouped up nice and neat) is irrelevant in the current game design.

The current classes are designed by the mentality “amputate until it feels unique.” Uniqueness was previously accomplished by ability complexity and interaction and mastery of niche tools. This was a much better game then.


There are few more builds to do but yeah not looking good right now. Talent changes usually happen on the next few builds of PTR. But if that doesn’t even happen yes then it is easy to conclude they have given up on class changes.

(Ulthané) #12

Judging on what Ion said before I can imagine we will see a massive overhaul on classes and how talents work in 9.0 if anything. Atm i could imagine some type of talent/tuning pass soon for the PTR but atm they wanted to get the neck stuff out for testing ASAP which honestly was the smart move if anything.

(Plytofski) #13

I actually don’t mind UA, but I really don’t like how Afflic is a “stack everything in your damage CD” spec now. I thought Summon Darkglare was one of the worst things to come to affliction as it just reinforces that notion, and to top it off, deathbolt.

(Allyriae) #14

I was watching a recent Bellular video on the topic about the declining interest in 8.2 content, and he asked some interesting questions to the effect of, “Has the camel’s back of WoW finally broken?”

I’m a Blizzard sympathizer. I appreciate all the work they do. I love WoW and have played it for 14 years. I’ve read the John Staats book and I have a good idea of how much time, effort, and money has gone into developing and maintaining this game. Furthermore, I genuinely like the content and themes for BfA. I love the pirates, and the trolls, and the art, and all that!

That having been said, BfA thus far has been a failure in the eyes of many players. Why?

It’s something that players have been trying to tell Blizzard since BfA alpha first went live. The game systems and class mechanics are less fun than previous expansions.

The content is great, but it doesn’t matter if your class isn’t as fun to play as it used to be. Game mechanics and your class is the window through which you view the world of content. If it’s all scratched and busted, then your experience is subpar regardless of the view.

This isn’t just me being salty as a former arcane mage (although I am and there’s that), this is about post-Legion changes that happened for everybody which didn’t feel good. Let’s enumerate some of them:

  • Losing artifact weapon traits.
  • Rearranging talent trees to add abilities we previously had on our artifact.
  • No additional character abilities or traits beyond level 100.
  • A second stats crunch on top of an item level crunch after just having added scaling while leveling, thus breaking a great deal of it.
  • Adding offensive cooldowns to the GCD caused significant clunkiness for many specs.
  • Very little Blizzard communication during alpha and beta explaining the reasons for various changes.
  • Perception that BfA development was rushed (poor QA and unpopular game systems changes).

To add fuel to this fire of unhappy players, Ion has focussed the Q/A sessions on content, which furthers the perception that Blizzard has washed their hands of class design in this expansion. Blizzard has essentially told players that classes cannot be redesigned mid-expansion, which on the surface makes sense, but then you realize your favorite class/spec is in a terrible spot and… well… better luck in 9.0?

This is a terrible state of perception. Blizzard needs to address this, soon. All the best content in the world (and I believe it’s still great) won’t fix these problems.

The fix is to spend the time and effort to go through (as in Legion) each and every spec and work with their respective communities to give players the game systems they want. If that isn’t feasible, then there are too many specs and the entire class system needs redesigned, because it’s unmaintainable.

I just want throw these types of rhetorical questions at the devs (which we did throughout alpha and beta), for any given spec: Do you actually play this spec? Is it fun? Is it more fun than Legion?

Ion gets credit for being honest in the Q/A sessions. He’s actually said that they agree with the feedback. Leveling doesn’t feel great. The GCD doesn’t feel great. Losing abilities doesn’t feel great.

All these things don’t feel great. Great. So, is there any mystery as to why the game has been hemorrhaging subs throughout BfA? Is there any question as to why people are disinterested in 8.2 content?

I don’t believe the game is beyond repair, and I remain optimistic that 9.0 will respond to a great deal of these problems. It’s just frustrating that it’s going to take two years to see the problems that we saw in BfA alpha fixed.

(Elynos) #15

My spec has never been more fun to play.

Forum Moderator Note: Post edited to remove inappropriate comment.

(Apprehended) #16

I’m currently wrestling with this conflict. The content for 8.2 actually does look very good, but I do not like Fire at all and consequently have problems being enthusiastic about it.

For that matter BoDa is actually a really fun raid, but the state Fire is in makes it quite unenjoyable for me.

It’s a really weird place to be in where you like the game content, but hate the class you have to play it on.

(Arkelion) #17

My spec has never been more fun to play, L2P and you would feel the same way

Have we really reached a place where the response to, “My class doesn’t feel as fun as it did in Legion.” is L2P? Can you even hear yourself?


Uh, maybe try playing the other specs than one of the best healing spec and see how bad druids really are lol

(Kabbie) #21

Which is an incredibly selfish response: “I don’t see a problem, so there must not be one. Maybe the problem is you.”

Me, I see a few hundred posts that say there’s a problem and I’m not going to go Principal Skinner and assume that everyone else is out of touch. There may not be a problem with you, specifically, but that doesn’t invalidate everyone else’s problems with this expansion.

As for me, this is the only expansion that I haven’t taken an alt to 120 because the entire expansion is so incredibly painful that i don’t want to do something as relatively benign as leveling a second time, even if that means I get to do it as a different class. That’s how bad it is - my experience as an alt will just as bad as the experience I had with my main.


The problem is that classes need to be fun not only for level cap but for leveling/new players.

BFA strikes out on all three fronts (level cap, new players and leveling players)