I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt. re-read what I’ve said.
Where did I say raiding was less efficient for hitting 415/420
Where did I talk about getting to 415/420
Where did I say m+ was more efficient for gearing past the early portion of the tier, I.E. progression.
Bad player in a bad guild, who cares what you think? You’re bad.
"M+ is by far the most efficient source of gear until you have a raid on farm. It’s not really opinion, having the ability to farm dungeons that give 3-5 pieces of loot per run guaranteed at a base 400 and take 20-30 minutes are vastly more efficient than clearing a heroic raid that takes ~70-90 minutes, or part of a raid that drops 415 gear.
The complaint of raiders is not that “you can reach 420 with m+ gear, nyah!” it’s more simply, “when gearing for progression, m+ is by far more efficient to acquire gear than raiding could ever come close to achieving”" - Typical Heroic Raider
You don’t need to do M+ to get into mythic raiding. Period, so there’s no issue. Hopefully they raise the key level required for getting the best gear from mythic+, so we have a true progression system and a reason to push past 10. I’ve long advocated for that, then I could watch bots like you struggle to “Farm” all your gear so you can finally start killing mythic champs.
“Until they have the raid on farm”
Yes you mean week 1? The heroic raid is already on FARM for people capable of doing M+10. So therefor, it’s the most efficient way to gear, I know so, because I actually spent the time doing heroic BoD with my guild because it would give me a head start on M+. Do you think I’d spend one point of titan residuum on 400 ILVL azerite gear? Do you think I’d wait 3 full weeks to roll aONE415 IVL azerite piece when I could go into the raid on Mythic and kill the first 3 bosses for 5 chances a week for a 415 azerite piece? Only person crying about the system is you, I didn’t, I sucked it up and went and raided even though it’s painfully easy and BORING.
You say yourself, “when gearing for progression” meaning, you think you need 400 ILVL off pieces to progress through mythic raiding. LOL, sucks to suck am I right?
Now please, post from your main so we can all laugh at you, heroic raid superstar
When I say “getting gear” I mean raising your item level. If you’re just farming crystals or scrap I wouldn’t call that getting gear.
I don’t know where you’re misunderstanding me so fundamentally, but damn. Figure it out mate.
…Jesus Christ.
Not in a world 1200 guild, no. It’s a damn good thing I never even implied talking about them.
Jesus Christ
I am not. Nor have I yet. Given a damn. About heroic.
I think you’re exactly the type of person to do so.
where did I make a single complaint about the current system?
You spend 20 minutes to reply to a single post, breaking it down, post from your main coward so we have a frame of reference for your skill level and game knowledge, then you can talk. Until then your post is INVALID.
My argument is VERY clear. The most efficient way to gear for mythic raiding progression, is by RAIDING. Fact. Show us otherwise, you make a presumptive statement and refuse to actually back it up. Now show us that sweet Jaina progress bro. Typical oceanic region baddy, wish blizz would finally segregate you from the rest of the player base.
Oh and what was the average ilvl from world first Jaina? 405? Most gear above 400 ilvl they had equipped was from previous MYTHIC raid bosses. Look it up, you can find the gear Method was wearing when they downed it.
Oh that’s right, Method geared through HEROIC RAID split runs and funneled gear to players, so much for chain running M+ for sweet 400s. So here’s the reality, you don’t know what you’re even talking about. So stop.
I explained it to you once nicely. Pay attention this time. What he’s saying stands or falls on its own. It makes exactly zero difference which character is next to the words. Address the points. Until you do so, and stop using ad hominems, your posts are invalid.
You may be right, you may be wrong, I don’t really care. Just argue the issue and stop fixating on irrelevant crap that doesn’t matter. If you can’t do that you don’t belong in a discussion.
Well he’s wrong, because you can find a video demonstrating EXACTLY how Method geared for Mythic raiding, heroic raid split runs and gear funnel, not chaining M+ so he’s wrong, and I’m right, and there’s video and historical proof of it. So there you have it. Oh, and his raid progress and m+ progress is absolutely relevant… I don’t sit and tell people how a game works that I don’t even play because I clearly wouldn’t have knowledge of it, just as he’s demonstrated he has no knowledge of the present system, yet feels the need to pretend he does. He’s transparent, he talks like a typical Heroic raider.
Your argument is based on the way a world first caliber guild geared? Do you need me to explain the concept of statistical significance?
For the third time, it isn’t. If he was making a claim that was in some way dependent on experience, it would be fine to ask how he knows what he’s claiming. In this case, he’s not saying anything that isn’t readily accessible to anyone with the capacity to think, regardless of game experience.
No, he doesn’t.
Sorry, I guess I was unclear.
Your claim was that M+ is the more efficient path to gearing a character at the beginning of a tier, to which I disagree.
Per hour spent, mythic + awards far less gear than raiding. That’s the definition of efficiency. Raiding gives you more item levels per hour than M+. The amount of hours needed to reach 400 item level (at the beginning of this tier) for my Raid toon was about 18 hours. 3 weeks of heroic raiding in calendar time.
The amount of time it took for my M+ toon to reach 400 item level was closer to 70 hours.
You could make an argument that, with no lockout, a very dedicated person could put 70 hours into a toon over the course of a week or two and beat a pure raid character to 400, but my counter would be “good, working as intended”. I think having an avenue for progression based on time spent (assuming a reasonable level of success, obviously) is good for the game.
Which is why I said M+ can be more efficient if you control by calendar days. But, the effort is disproportionately skewed toward the M+ player who goes this route.
Hope that cleared it up. I’m disputing that M+ is more efficient.
The following is not directed at you, but is more of an open discussion.
IMHO, that’s not why heroic raiders dislike M+. Heroic raiders often do both activities, and so they get to heroic item level in about half the time. In my specific case, 6 hours spent raiding cuts 70 down to 40, another 6 cuts it down to 20. By second week, I was able to get to 400 average item level this tier. It’s the combining of the two that makes it feel so lucrative.
This is disruptive to heroic raiding. No doubt. No one is disputing that at all. The Forging system was kind of a way for blizzard to continue to incentivize people to keep raiding after they hit 400 item level, but that’s not what people want. Heroic raiders want to log in twice a week, get geared over the course of a few weeks to their BiS list, then either go into hibernation until the next tier (unless it’s upon you at this point), push for heroic parses (if you got lucky early), or push into Mythic progression (probably most heroic guilds aspire to this). Infinite progression doesn’t jive with that. Effort based progression doesn’t jive with that, either.
M+ rats don’t have that avenue for quick gear, so getting to 400 takes something like 30 m+ clears (starting at 390 or so from last season end). That’s the point where you can start moving up the ladder, really. And pushing high keys requires mythic raid gear right now.
By lowering M+ rewards, you’d be lowering the cap at which pure M+ players could push keys just so that heroic raiding lasted an extra week or two. As a directly affected party, I feel like this is a poor trade. I like that I can do 15-17 keys having zero raid gear on this toon. I can’t commit to a raid schedule for various reasons, so m+ is my only endgame progression path. Obviously I exclusively pug, so I was never going to pushing 20s, but the fact that I could run 100 m+ dungeons to get 410 item level means I can at least push myself up to where I feel like I can compete with people of a similar item level. If the efficiency were any worse, I wouldn’t be able to do that. And if the item levels were lowered enough to devalue the content to heroic raiders (a common “suggestion” here on this forum) I would be stuck in the +10-12 range with the once-a-week crowd.
Some changes I do support, though, to lower the average while not lowering the efficient for skilled play. For example, non-timed dungeons not dropping loot at all, or the weekly chest being based on your best times dungeon for the week, and not best completed, or scaling it based on leaderboard position (my idea I posted in another long rant thread).
head on over to icy-veins kid learn to play
If we’re talking about high end players raiding will be far more efficient because more than likely, those high end players will be doing splits. Spamming m+ isn’t really gonna do much for you unless it’s the beginning of the expac or you’re incredibly behind on gear or desperate for an absolutely game-changing piece. We don’t have leggos to fish for anymore lmao. And even then it’s only really relevant for a week or so in that niché timeframe. Even if you WEREN’T doing splits, raiding would still be more efficient unless you (again) were behind on gear.
Let’s see… everyone’s already just about 400 ilvl… do we spam M+ to increase our ilvl by a very small increment when the ilvl is capped lower than our current ilvl or do splits as a top 50 guild, and funnel all the gear we can to tanks and DPS?
This might sound bad but i hope they kill off mythic raiding. Too many more popular aspects of the game have to make concessions because of raids. Such as no pvp vendors because raiders would feel forced to pvp to fill in gear slots.
A quick search of your io shows the highest key you’ve completed is a 10. You aren’t speaking from any type of expertise or experience on the subject. A mythic 14 to 15 is quite difficult and the reward should match that.mythic plus becomes exponentially harder as you push the key to the point of impossible unlike a mythic raid, and the dungeon strays change constantly depending on the affixes in place, making certain dungeons nearly unclearable unlike a mythic raid where it is the same fight over and over again.
Mythic plus is not an easy thing to complete otherwise you’d see everyone with 1500 io scores. Mythic plus doesn’t need any type of gear nerf, if anything 15s should drop mythic raid equivalent gear. It takes nothing away from mythic raiders except a sense of entitlement and elitism that usually isn’t earned. If you can a run a 15 and timing it you are playing at a very high level.
Is that why you parsed a 9% on your one kill where you guild carried you to a kill on Conclave and the other hunter didn’t? I mean clearly you are amazing. My mistake for doubting your unquestionable skills. A 9% is really, really, really impressive. Keep up the good fight of telling other people they aren’t good because you get carried through content. If you need some pointers let me know I’m pretty sure even having never played a hunter I can give you some tips on how to not be flat out terrible.
If your performance is anywhere similar to your raid performance congrats on being carried?
So you’ve picked one raid tier where you again likely got carried? I mean, congrats?
Let me know when they carry you to your CE. I’d love to see the parse.
Christ almighty man. If you don’t think you aren’t having a meltdown then I feel so sorry for anyone who gets stuck on a plane with you when you slam that thing into a mountain because you are an angsty individual who clearly doesn’t function well in society.
Clearly not if this psychopath made it through. I am genuinely concerned for people’s well being if this nutjob is actually a pilot that is anything more than a puddle hopper that he can only kill himself in and not 40+ other people.
Um just read through the entirety of the thread and that was a bit of a roller coaster.
I’m legitimately concerned that deaged was replying to you all mid flight spazzing out and screaming obscenities over the inner coms as the plane began to bank left and right the fasten seatbelt signs turned on while the passengers were at the mercy of how well this guy takes criticism over the internet.
Given his demeanor, he probably works for United.
We are like one more roast from a national tragedy, please everyone think of the passengers
You know what is a hell of a drug. Rick James gonna roll the plane to save everybody by only killing a few.
The title of the movie will be trolls on a plane
“I’m tired of all these monkey flipping casuals on my monkey flipping plane!”