You’ve just described the issue. It has nothing to do with M+. It’s because WoW is a 20+ year old solved game.
The number crunch wasn’t bad. 10+ is just a crapshoot and plain not fun because of Tryannical + Fort + Peril. Fix that absolutely stupid combo and people won’t complain anymore (at least not in regards to anything of substance anyways)
Thats what heroic is for. Im tired of you idiots sharing your poorly thought out opinions because you want to spend more time on forums than inside the game learning mechanics. This M+ system is overall much better than the previous one.
They literally had detailed blueposts describing exactly why the changes were being made. Those keys below +10 were not a challenge and acted more as a time sink than a gradual ramp. There are more reasons than that of course, but in the end you already dont know enough to be giving ideas on the matter.
M+ had absolutely nothing to do with this. Look at every iteration of classic/sod recently, pug raid groups demand a specific comp/high parses etc to clear extremely easy content.
Says the guy with 2400 posts.
Look at my raider io score and you’ll find I run high keys and do mythic raiding. I have friends that are struggling with this if they don’t have a dedicated group to run with. Also, if you aren’t “meta” GL finding a high end group.
Heroic is HARDLY a good evaluation of what to do in a mythic run. It’s roll-over easy for anyone to do, skipping all mechanics. I would say it actually feels more like LFR. Why would anyone care about mechanics when they don’t do anything to them. Maybe this is another thing that needs to be addressed.
As far as below 10, not being a challenge, for you maybe? for others I beg to differ. More people would run m+ all the way up to higher numbers with that ramp up. You can tell just by the search, and time to find a group.
Yeah agreed, tank buster (especially magical) in TWW S1 is out of control. This isn’t the first time it’s happening. In SL S1, Blizzard made the tank weaker (they stripped magical defensives) and overtuned the tank buster (magical and bleed) + white swings hit way too hard. Because Blizzard wanted healers to heal the tank, that didn’t work.
In TWW S1, the magical tank buster has a 12-18 seconds cooldown and what is the tank supposed to do? They don’t have enough cooldown to rotate every magical tank buster and they die to the magical tank busters without defensive. The healer has 0 agency to heal the tank like this. At any moment, tank misses a global like BDK misses Death Strike global and they just died (literally). The tank health bars are ping ponging all over the place. Blizzard needs to stop doing this, Blizzard needs to go back and figure out what makes tanks fun because there’s a lack of groups in LFG.
Heroic is trivial and below 10 is a challenge? Good thing M0 exists between them. We all did it the opening weeks, people new to M+ shouldnt feel above it just cause we’re months into the season.
Youre 2400 io, and have 2 mythic boss kills. You dont run high keys (only 2 timed 10s) and killing the first 2 doesnt mean you prog mythic. You run just enough for a few pieces of mythic loot in your vault and the crests to upgrade it.
The guy with 2400 posts (over 7 years on 1 toon btw) is right. Go back and push your own key to learn the mechanics. Maybe teach those friends that are having trouble too.
Yeah this is 100% the issue. Need to go back to spreading out the keys. People who can do 1-3s end up with 4-5 keys and completely suck at them because it requires more effort and ruin keys in that range. People who are good at 5-6 end up in 9s doing the same thing.
On top of that i don’t want to do the highest lvl of key i can do all the time. I’m pretty happy to hang out doing 12s then pushing one or two keys to 20s when all my friends finally come on at the same time.
Delves are cool but the “just do Delves” attitude has clearly run its course and m+ is suffering because of it. I haven’t played since they started this wow 20th anniversary event because its clear the m+ issues where not going to be fixed any time soon. people wanna pretend the m+ issue didn’t start in dragon flight season 4.
My comment was inclusive of everything starting with and "since late BC," meaning that the attitude of optimization has been a factor in every expansion I’ve been a part of (which is all of them).
The “sweating way too hard to optimal” was a thing loooong before M+ (as was the “gogogo mentality” and other things that M+ gets blamed for). People forget that the reason the biggest source(s) of rewards from outdoor content reset weekly is because people drove themselves into the ground trying to do 25 dailies every single day in MoP to keep up with reputation (followed by a big fat “nothing to do” for most of WoD before the current model was developed).
I am not a high key pusher but I think having 20 levels gives the player more of a sense of progression. In the past, I remember starting a new season in the +7 to +9 bracket. Eventually, I would progress into +12 to +13, then, +17 to +19. It was fun working towards getting into higher level keys and I felt a great sense of accomplishment to finally get a +20 timed.
I definitely miss the previous brackets because that is where you could cut your teeth. You also met a lot of friends along the way. For me, it was fun and a valuable learning experience to stretch out the progression and it gave me a sense that I was steadily improving.
For TWW, I achieved +10’s but it was such an unpleasant experience, I have lost the motivation to go any higher. I am actually dreading vs contemplating the worth of filling out the weekly vault. Maybe I progressed too fast or maybe dungeons just aren’t fun or maybe the tanking/healing nerfs are too unpleasant. I have heard several theories.
Whatever it is, it is too much, and I would rather do something else.
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Hmm. Why? The old system system had a lot of fluff/redundant levels.
I don’t think there was anything wrong with the old system. It felt way better to have high keystone levels! Some people were past +30 already, and now we’re doing 18’s. it just looks worse imo. big number better, small number bad ( / warcraft brain)
Anyway, There was a range of keys that represented a specific skill bracket, and i think that was pretty good for getting a sense of where you stand in terms of progression, what keystones were appropriate to “learn” in, etc.
I think the older system made it easier to spot the quality of player applying to the same groups as you because of those understood brackets…plus depleting didn’t feel any worse than it does now…you had more key levels to work with at different milestones. if anything it gave you more wiggle room before your key downgraded to a level where the reward was below what you needed for an upgrade in vault. (I think, if i’m wrong about that, literally disregard that entire statement 
)
(expanding on my thoughts about this new mythic+ system):
I think Blizzard need to re-think the system entirely, especially the reward structure of it. I prefer them making M+ feel more like a seasonal journey - not an arcade lfg simulator race to get keystone master and portals in week 1. You should be rewarding players for reaching specific milestones, not watering down their achievements so everyone gets the trophy…or making the system feel as bad as possible as you climb?
In classic WoW, the game was about leveling, and at each level, you get a new talent…or a batch of spells, it was rewarding to reach milestones.
We don’t have levels anymore, instead we have these seasonal milestones (in various activities)…but there’s nothing to chase after portals…who wants that? What even is KSM anymore? it should represent something, but they intentionally have designed it to become meaningless.
I think these titles should kind of be a reflection of experience/skill level - because it could be a tool to cultivate a more positive/less toxic culture. When you have a system where it’s really easy to determine someone’s skill level by knowing the bracket they’re in, you’ll find yourself more likely to group with others in the same range in terms of having the same seasonal goals, being at the same’ish experience/gear level, etc. (like minded/experienced people get along better in groups if you ask me).
Idk why they don’t just have a traditional Ladder system for mythic+ to flesh these things out. I like the Starcraft 2 ladder system personally - it even has a completely transparent breakdown to show your progression and how close you are to promotion).
Bronze - Silver - Gold - Diamond - Master top 2% of players - GM for top 200-500.
Give each rank their own special one of a kind banner that becomes unobtainable, EZ. A reward that will still be special in 10 years, and not get old after 4 months.
gosh that was a long post there 
OMG EDIT: Blizzard, if you do something like a seasonal unobtainable cosmetic…make sure it’s class or role specific, not just based on your end of season rank! Thank you!
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Other than which numerals are being used, how is this different from starting in M0 (which covers all the previous 2-11 levels), then progressing to +2 and +3 (12/13), then to +7 to +9 (17 - 19)? Why is there a sense of accomplishment at finally getting a 20 timed but not a 10 when they are essentially equivalent?
I’m sincerely not understand what the material difference is between the current system and what you described.
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The 20-level curve was gradual. The 10-level curve feels steep and punishing, especially if you rely on PUG’s to progress. During this season I have been rejected as a healer applying to +10’s even though I never applied to a +10 until I timed all the dungeons on +9. I know everyone doesn’t play this way, that is timing all +9’s before attempting +10’s, which might make it difficult to determine the readiness of the player applying to the group. To make things worse, +10’s introduce a new affix. If you fail a +10, you are sent back to the deal with the +7 to +9 timer affix. You do not get an opportunity to “learn” the +10 affix before essentially being demoted into the previous bracket. Sure, most are familiar with Tyrannical and Fortified, but we have never experienced them in the same key until now. Many +10’s were bricked because of failing the timer. It just ends up feeling like a big wall. You could make an argument that if the player is failing a +10 due to the timer maybe they should go back to +9 and learn how to not die. Suppose I do and complete a 9++. Am I ready yet? Maybe…maybe not…
Before the 10-level curve, gearing and crest acquisition was also gradual. In the previous curve, you began acquiring heroic level gear at +17 and the gilded crests of the day at +16. Essentially, while working through +17 to +19 keys, not only were you gearing and upgrading your gear, but you were probably running the dungeons 20-30 times before attempting a +20. By the time I was attempting +10’s this season I still had many Champion items. Farming +8’s and +9’s for that one item slot doesn’t feel good compared to before where you eventually were completely in heroic gear by just progressing through the brackets.
I understand why they changed the curve, but it’s pretty clear that interest in M+ is at an all-time low. Participation is low. Frustrations with the difficulty, gearing, and crest acquisition are very high. Players are not participating in the new system despite the redesign of the system was supposed to ease the player’s burden when looking for groups.
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This is the natural outcome of end of rewards.
It does not.
It activates fort or tyrannical, whatever is not active.
Because both are active, it’s a higher dps requirement.
Account for delves eating market share, and deleting lower levels. M+ is in a rather good place.