Blizz Clarifies how Group loot will work and no BoE Weapons

[Aelora-wyrmrest-accord (Aelora)]

@Marla-westfall

this is really bad - do they not remember what happened in dragon soul with LFR and group loot? Guild groups would go in there and roll on everything and then pass it around to themselves. If you weren’t in that raid group your chances of getting gear was almost zero.

Or when they simply all rolled Need and admitted they were trolling people to vendor or DE upgrades for other players just to be jerks. Dragon Soul LFR was specifically WHY things like Personal Loot were added, as the elites showed we can’t have nice things otherwise.

[Cogbuster-moon-guard]

@Jikari-greymane

I’m normally one who will defend blizzard and try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but In this case, I’m going to have to strongly disagree with what Blizzard is trying to do. Yes, Personal Loot could use some tweaks, but overall it works for LFR/PUGS…and to be honest, I just don’t realistically see how forcing non-organized raid groups to use Group Loot will not end badly.

To give Blizzard some credit…a few of the new “improvements” will be beneficial…However, without significant additional changes, I’m doubtful they will be able to bring this system to an appropriate level for non-organized raid groups. Right now, the best case scenario would be that people completely ignore each other as far as loot goes, and act generally honest about not using need whey they intend to sell or DE an item…but I find it highly unlikely that will happen. Considering how the community is now days, I can pretty much guarantee that we will have at least some, if not numerous trolls in any given run who will deliberately try to manipulate the system…and it will rapidly escalate from there.

Below I’ll go into detail as to what extent I think the new improvement will actually accomplish their intended goals.

1.The integrated Primary/off-spec recognition will only provide useful protection for specific niche or semi-niche items (shields, bows, etc) with regard to greed rolls. Otherwise, I have a hard time seeing how it will actually be able to effectively distinguish between a main or off-spec need role. I’ve listed the major potential sorting categories I could think of below (no particular order), and why they would or would not work to differentiate between main & off-spec need roles.

• 1.a. Procs: While some items have a very specific proc effect (damage, healing, etc), many procs are simply stat bonuses of one flavor or another, and can be activated from either attacks or abilities/spells. In this case, only the procs which are specifically limited (effect or initiation (e.g. attack only, or heal only)) could be sorted into main spec need or off-spec need.
• 1.b. Primary Stats: Back in the day, we had hard-coded primary stats on pretty much all gear pieces, which was an easy way to identify spec specific gear, or at least narrow it down (e.g., Int Leather). However, now days there are relatively few pieces with locked primary stats. Cloaks/Jewelry usually don’t have primary stats at all, core armor pieces (chest/helm/belts/gloves/etc) all change their primary stat based on your spec, and a significant number of trinkets either don’t have primary stats, or change to some extent based on spec/class which is using it. This means that primary stats are rather limited as a means to sort main/off-spec need rolls for most item types beyond weapons and some trinkets (and not always for those, as I’ll discuss next)
• 1.c. Weapon type: Most classes have multiple specs (often crossing spec types) which use the same weapon categories. Doing a sort by both weapon type & primary stat could reduce issues to some extent, but you’ll still have a number of outliers (e.g., Feral/Guardian Druids, Resto/Balance Druids, Priests, DKs, Shamans, DHs) unless the weapon has some type of spec specific proc/effect.
• 1.d. Secondary stats (haste vs mastery) or overall effectiveness (staff vs one-hander/off-hand or shield). While you’ll find plenty of guides saying no-one would ever want to use a staff for a given caster vs a one-hander w/shield or off-hand, or that you should absolutely avoid some specific secondary stat like mastery. These are things blizzard should not use to distinguish main-spec need vs off-spec need. Any limitations here are solely player preference based choices (min-max, looks, RP, etc.).
• 1.e. Even the options regarding tertiary stats they commented on would only be useful to determine roll eligibility, and not sort the item into main/off-spec, as all tertiary stats have some level of usefulness regardless of spec.

2. Limit on duplicates (duplicate drops or compared to currently worn item). This is a solid improvement, but as people have said, if they only limit it “worn” vs “owned” for that specific item, people will take advantage of that loophole…It also doesn’t help with one person having a hot streak or bad luck on rolls across multiple bosses.
3. Tradability…while quite good for organized raid groups, this isn’t going to be worth much at all in a fully random LFR or PUG group. While some folks might make use of it, in all honesty, the vast majority won’t…and at the same time, it will drive up the cases of people being harassed to give up items for various and often foolish if not fraudulent reasons (only a small upgrade, wrong secondary stats for their spec, etc…) See back to previous discussions about trolls…

So yes, while the updated GL system will be “relatively” better then what we had in Dragon Soul, it will still be far worse then simply leaving PL in place for LFR and as an option for the organized raid categories.

Jikari Majere
White Knight who has taken off his helmet for the moment

Would you say this is a change from them reacting to world first min/maxers or asmongold or both?

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Shaoforge-nagrand

people realize the completely overreacted.

Yeah, this fear of everyone needing every item they can is actually just a fear of PL, since there is no functional difference.

[Shamanizim-velen]

@Jarnock-moon-guard

Because here you are being part of the problem. If you want to be malicious, then be malicious, but the rest of us are going to play like reasonable human beings.

You’re arguing with a a very narcissistic person. He will intentionally try to hurt the community because he doesn’t like the new loot rules. You can’t win this argument against him. He will need on everything he can just in spite of the system. But that’s okay, he doesn’t understand that people were rolling against him for loot as is now.

[Hunda-blackrock]

eh yeah but when u are dpsing with tank loot selected, a tank shield drops and u win the roll against the guy that has been tanking…how that guy will feel?

same can happen tank put dps spec on , and gets the 2h or dps trinket

PL isnt perfect but is miles ahead of group loot

[Terranox-stonemaul (Terranox)]

I mean some of us lived through this loot thing already. We already know how people acted and did things. Blizzard didn’t even bother changing much of the old system to even address old problems.

And it’s a loot nerf. Raiders are complaining about loot drops. But nerfing loot is ok now? It’s only also mostly useful for diverse comps. It’s a big loot nerf if you don’t diversify your comp. Something personal loot accounted for and gave you gear people can use 100% of the time.

[Gwennedl-grobbulus]

Ok, I’m glad they clarified it… especially my fear of people ninjaing an item they already had.

• Additionally, players can’t Need on a piece of loot if they’re wearing the exact piece at the exact item level, though in the event where this occurs but the dropped piece has a Tertiary stat or Socket, that roll would be possible (as those are upgrades).

also like this…

• Players won’t be able to win multiples of the same item - say that 2 sets of Shoulders drop. While you can roll Need on both of them, winning one will ‘remove’ your roll from the other.

I’m now okay with GL. Just hope it doesn’t lead to them eventually bringing back ML.

[Krugah-wyrmrest-accord]

We both know the cycle of the game Maizou. I’ll elaborate.

Verse 1:
Blizzard introduces a crippling flaw to an otherwise neat Expansion.
Players complain and demand that the problem be fixed quickly.
Developers blame players for not understanding their genius.
Players use the power of the purse, and quit in droves.

Verse 2:
Corporate notices. They call Irvine and tell the Developers they can put out or get out.
Developers fix the issue and discuss then how this was their master plan all along.
Players return slowly. The expansion however is damaged beyond repair now.
Players wait for the next expansion, but fewer return than originally left.

Verse 3:
Blizzard announces work on the next Expansion and a whole bunch of fixes.
Blizzard releases the new Expansion’s Beta. Everyone says it’s perfect!
Blizzard fires everyone at their lowest echelons of employment.

Chorus:

A corporate shakeup occurs that sacks most of the senior leadership because they do not fit the ‘perceived’ values of the current player base. Most of the positions taken however are held by a minority.

Developers blame the players asking for more content and claim THEY are the problem, not them. Said logic earns the developer a promotion into the company’s senior leadership.

Random human being gets rewarded with a pointless NPC.
Pointless NPC is replaced with even more pointless object.

{Main Chorus repeats Verses 1 through 3. All others chant a Sumerian Droning Ritual.}

Did I hit all the keynotes?

[Hunda-blackrock]

yeah the cycle of wow life

[Yelenya-daggerspine]

wait…wut?

Based on feedback and some further consideration, we’re likely not moving forward with Weapons as part of a BoE table just yet.

No more farming weapon BoEs to sell on the AH…or am I misunderstanding?

[Yelenya-daggerspine]

LMAO…literally ALL of this is fixed IF blizzard would stop being so grubbing stingy with gear drops.
When 3 things drop, yeah…people are going to fight to the death for them.

I’ll stick to my solo game bliz…thanks.

[Yelenya-daggerspine]

@Vishamani-illidan

blizzard likes a wow that gives everyone the exact item week after week after week so you get nowhere and they think this will prolong game time.

Some here can lie to themselves and deny this fact, but Ive proven it beyond argument by multiboxing raids and dungeons with 3 of the four armor types and literally watching the game give me the same percentage of useable drops.
It just gives you 90% of that ONE armor type you arent running and cant use if you cover three of them. lmao.

This isnt real RNG…not REAL random.
They rig the system against you. Not only are you fighting against the drop rate of the item, youre fighting against the system keeping you from getting anything useable at all.
Ive tested it and seen it with my own two eyes.

[Yonbi-illidan (Yonbi)]

@Hunda-blackrock

eh yeah but when u are dpsing with tank loot selected, a tank shield drops and u win the roll against the guy that has been tanking…how that guy will feel?

Yeah but that happens today with personal loot. If I have tank spec selected, PL could still give me the shield. It just happens under the hood because the game clicks need on my behalf.

Again the difference was that the game clicks need for you vs. you having to manually do it.

Will it “feel” different? Sure I guess, but it isn’t actually different.

[Hunda-blackrock]

boes only drop from “Lt” “rares” that u can only get loot once / lockout

so yeah farming boes goes the way of the dodo

[Yelenya-daggerspine]

@Hunda-blackrock

boes only drop from “Lt” “rares” that u can only get loot once / lockout

so yeah farming boes goes the way of the dodo

lol…I hope they realize thats literally how I make gold in this game…and might well be verging on that ‘last straw’ kind of thing.

[Prîdë-moon-guard]

@Küwu-wyrmrest-accord

Pretty much the same old “We don’t do jack until its a problem…and we dont fix that problem until later.”

And if its not a problem, we make it one. xD

[Eleusia-myzrael]

@Maizou-proudmoore

I for one look forward to when LFR participation drops below acceptable levels for the higher ups, a few devs get fired, the devs get the ultimatum to increase participation or no more raids for the THIRD TIME - and they announce they’re “listening to feedback” and reinstating Personal Loot.

That sounds possible…. except for the fact that instead of finally listening to feedback from players outside of organized raid teams, the current WoW devs’ solution may be to pull another Season 4 on us and refuse to put in any gear progression in the open world or in soloable instances. WoW devs may also try to put more profession quests and cosmetic rewards in LFR to up the metrics.

Raiding as the primary endgame activity for all players—and organized raiders as the only player demographic whose feedback matters—is the hill that WoW devs are willing to let WoW die on, and the overlords may not even fully comprehend how the game can be losing subs even if raiding metrics improve.

[Hunda-blackrock]

raid or die is back baby

[Psychamok-nagrand]

it pretty simple and some people dont seem to gave grasped it yet - blizz’s whole game now revolves around doing as little content as possible and it taking you as long as possible to do it.
Whether this is taking flight away so it take you time to get anywhere to taking a month to get 1 piece of gear doesnt bother them - getting your money for as long as possible does.

[Meinteil-frostmourne]

@Yelenya-daggerspine

I hope they realize thats literally how I make gold in this game…

They want to sell you a token…