Black Wing Layers to this

So I have a few questions, these are 100% honest with no sarcasm.

Are people going to be able to pug BWL? I heard a lot of people saying how much harder it will be than MC. I understand it’s a much smaller dungeon and people are min maxxed to the tots, but it was finished in 40 minutes.

Is BWL being finished in 40 minutes going to hurt WoW Classic?

Do you think AB will be released early? For me, world of warcraft classic was made for PVP. Whether you like it or not, Classic raid bosses are mostly mechanics that can be taken care of with one button press or running to a corner for a few moments.

Feel free to flame me for my lack of knowledge, or answer my questions. God bless you all.

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Maybe IDK I’m lvl 38



It’s being cleared in 40 minutes by people that are many times better skilled and prepared than the vast majority of players in Classic.

Most people will not even clear BWL this week, let alone do so in under an hour. The fact some people are doing it faster should have absolutely ZERO bearing on everyone else’s enjoyment of the game, nor its longevity.


The people that cleared it in 40 minutes are basically the worlds best guilds rocking rank 14 gear, full consumables and tons of practice. Most guilds will take a few hours in there, atleast the first time.

Better skilled? I don’t know about that.

Better prepared? definitely.
What’s stopping most guilds from being that prepared other than laziness? I’ll be watching my friends guild this sunday where most players are baseline in “skill”, nearly BiS gear, and all will be with a flask.

Except for the flask, most people who are raiding have nearly BiS and are base level in “skill”.

I put “skill” in quotes because what is skill in wow classic? memorizing a rotation, noticing debuffs on yourself that will impact people around you, and noticing debuffs on raid members that you need to get rid of.
None of that is very difficult.


I know about that.

I’ve seen enough people playing this game (either through livestreams, watching them in-game, analyzing logs) to know most of them are really, REALLY bad, and, comparatively at least, the guilds clearing BWL in under an hour are MUCH better.


Unless you mean they are lazy for not making themselves aware by studying the fights, best in slot lists, etc, in which case yeah, it’s just laziness.

And yet people fail at it consistently.



It will be puggable. Possibly not at first but expect it by week three or so.

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If Onyxia is any kind of an example, hell no.

You sound like someone who pugs

Not sure what gave you that impression.

I raid with my guild. I’m talking about most players. While you might personally think it’s easy (and I agree with you), most people are bad.

Yes, but not immediately.

By speedrunners. if you don’t hold yourself to 15 minute clear times of Ocarina of Time, then don’t hold yourself to 40 minute BWLs. It’s basically a different game by those points.

No. Only people who let it get to them will be “hurt” by it. My raid team is gearing up for saturday and are expecting to wipe plenty of times.

I don’t see why it would be. Also, PVP in blizzard games has ALWAYS been an afterthought, and the only exception is HotS. So if you’re mostly here to PVP, I have to recommend changing your game.

No one’s flaming? But wow classic isn’t about execution as much as it is preparation, that part’s true. if you don’t like that, retail awaits.

Should be able to pug it.

But the raids average IQ will need to be above 80 instead of the MC pug requirement of 65.


BWL is a really short dungeon once you have it down. All the difficult trash is between Vael and Broodlord.

It won’t be puggable.

Have you cleared BWL, OP? The people that cleared it in 40 minutes have been at it for a literal decade. Once you’ve been playing Dark Souls nonstop for 10 years you will be able to clear it in 40 minutes, and it won’t mean the game is easy.


I don’t see how it is puggable without some kind of achievement system in place.

PVP in blizzard games has not always been an after thought, its two completely different teams working on each aspect.

Also not sure what this whole “this game isn’t for you” thing came from? You come off as braindead and completely take away from anything you said that may hold any value due to ending with ad hominem.

in this age is discord we can pug anything

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I’ve cleared BWL numerous times over the past 3 years, my guild was by no means pushing content as hard as these guys and we had it on farm by the fourth week around 1 and a 3/4s of an hour. I have no interest in raiding anymore, and similar to MC I’m curious if it’s a nerfed version.

it’s funny you use darksouls as a comparison, because I play 10-20 hours a week of dark souls and have been for the past 6 or 7 years and find it laughably easy, so yes, clearing something very quickly does make the game easy.

However ease is subjective. The vast majority of you are completely underestimating the population because you think the bottom tier 10% that wipe on the first 2 bosses of MC are a majority. They’re a minority.

But the game isn’t easy, all that your hours of playtime have achieved is make it easy FOR YOU. Which is exactly what I said.

If you’ve cleared BWL numerous times over the past 3 years then you have no idea of how hard it is. You’ve beaten it so many times that it might as well be a tribute run for you. My guild’s tenth Cenarius kill was very easy, but it doesn’t erase the 200 wipes we had on him.

“and similar to MC I’m curious if it’s a nerfed version.”

It isn’t a nerfed version. It is 1.12’s Blackwing Lair, and as everyone knew a year before Classic’s beginning, anything before AQ 40 is much easier at 1.12 than when it was originally released. The content itself wasn’t nerfed, the gear and talents became much more powerful. Which is why some of us, I included, advocated for a 1.9 Classic if full patch progression wasn’t possible.

We 8 healed it tonight and I really didn’t expect it would be as hard as it was.

Only 10 guilds on my server (Horde and alliance combined) cleared BWL today. THe server pop is like 5000-10000 active people.

BWL is hard for most guilds whos players work and have families to support.

Basement dwellers will of course clear it easy. its 15 year old content

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