Unfortunately a lot of WoW’s writing was contributed to by bad people. That doesn’t invalidate the writing, it just makes it a very good thing that those bad people were fired.
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I’m sorry Renautus ruined your thread OP, I appreciate the amount of effort you put into your story.
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Well granted we don’t know force statistics for either faction, but the fact that the Forsaken seemed to annihilate the Alliance remnant rather handily in the background of the WC3 cinematic seems to imply they outnumbered the Alliance remnant by a significant degree particularly since they had recently lost the service of all the Blood Elves.
So even if they fought in this scenario, I think the Forsaken still would have won. Sylvanas wasn’t being passive, she was just being pragmatic by trying to avoid starting a war with a former ally when she’s already surrounded by Scourge and preserving her own forces.
She had to be that fierce and unapologetic for them to survive because her decision to essentially genocide ALL the Alliance remnant instead of just Garithos left them with no other choice. By doing so, she basically ruined any chance of peaceful relations with the Alliance and made the Forsaken the target of not one but TWO powerful enemies.
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We have first hand accounts that the Humans sent hunting parties to kill formidable Forsaken. Even Alonsus Foal calls out both Turalyon and Genn out for their racism towards undead in Before the Storm. Sky Admiral Rogers is a disgusting racist, that’s why she signed on to Genn’s secret trip to Stormhiem, for the thrill of killing undead without consequences.
You entire theory hinges on the Alliance humans being pacifists in this scenario, but they were never pacifists.
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Forsaken are Undead cannibalistic flesh eaters.
You can’t write off that kind of history with a shiny new coat of paint.
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We’re really nice when you get to know us though 
Not really we’ll probably blight your house
nice and tasty!
If a few humans go missing every once and a while, what’s the harm in that?
What made them fail, and what made them homeless, and what made Sylvanas abandon them is the terrible writing by the devs.
Straight up.
The Forsaken were only hamfisted into the Horde because there was no better option. They just don’t, and never will, fit with the Alliance.
When we look at the mechanisms of both the Horde and Alliance, there is only one thing to consider: who is effecting change? The Horde, routinely, force the Alliance to react, and that is what defines them.
The Forsaken fit that identity far too well, even if they don’t necessarily jive with the values of the Horde (being “honor” and all that). The Forsaken’s creed is survival at all costs, and vengeance against all who wrong them, and often times that involves targeting the Alliance.
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Fair enough.
I consider Sylvanas as bearing the greater share of the blame because she essentially manipulated them from the start according to Edge of Night, shaped their culture into believing they were hated by the world and pushed them to see everyone as a potential enemy instead of trying to be a part of that world.
She definitely did them dirty for sure. I just personally believe that it’s still the responsibility of a society to pay attention to what their leaders are doing and what they are asking them to do and from what we’ve seen far too many Forsaken just didn’t seem to care and were all too ready to do whatever she wanted.
Not all of them of course, but enough did to the point they essentially started enabling her even when her actions were most definitely not in their society’ best interests.
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You might as well be asking me to be your friend after you’ve had my 10 year old dog for dinner.
This whole redemption, soul splitting nonsense is atrocious story telling.
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Oh agreed, they’re far from innocent, but the thing to remember is that, due to her leading them out of “slavery” to the Scourge, the Forsaken perceived Sylvanas as more than just a leader. She wasn’t some politician. She was like a messiah to them. A personal saviour.
If Jesus came back tomorrow and told some Americans to nuke New York they probably would lol.
I’m being tongue in cheek here, but the serious point is that Sylvanas was regarded in SUCH high esteem that I can feel for the Forsaken in that I think many of them simply never considered that she could do any wrong. Add that to the moral “muteness” of undeath, and you’ve got a problem on your hands for that society I reckon.
I sincerely hope new leaders bring more moral nuance to the Forsaken as a people.
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Hey do you wanna be my friend despite the fact that I’ve just ha-
… um
Oh.
This is awkward.
You’re forgetting that the Forsaken were not exactly acting like helpless victims in this regard during this time frame, according to the Arthas novel they had been kidnapping and performing horrible experiments on innocent Humans for quite some time in order to create the Plague.
And sometimes the experiments weren’t even done for the betterment of Forsaken society, one Apothecary was straight up making mindslaves out of Humans just to run errands for him.
Sky Captain Rogers was hardly a racist either, she had plenty of reason to hate ALL the Horde for what they did to Southshore which even Horde players have to admit was overkill.
I’m not going to say Humans didn’t do bad things to Forsaken for no reason either, but I feel like you’re trying too hard to overly victimize the Forsaken while ignoring the fact that their own actions heavily contributed to why so many Humans retaliated against them like they did.
Heck…with what Sylvanas did to Teldrassil, she all but vindicated the Scarlet Crusade’s propaganda by justifying their reason for hating the Forsaken and seeing them as Undead that is no better than the Scourge.
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I hope so as well. They need to move out of Sylvanas’ shadow and start thinking about what THEY want instead of blindly following orders.
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Theresa says: My lord Abernathy sends this to you.
Father Lankester says: Ugh! What is that scoundrel doing sending his vermin to me? Get out of my sight before I take what is left of your life. And take this with you!
Theresa says: Yes my Lord.
Theresa says: My Lord. From Father Lankester.
Gerard Abernathy says: Why thank you, my pet.
Gerard Abernathy says: Didn’t I tell you my new domination techniques would work?
Gerard Abernathy says: So what do you think of my new toy?
Gerard Abernathy says: How do you like my pet?
Gerard Abernathy says: It was simple once I broke her spirit.
Gerard Abernathy says: A little torture, a pinch of magic, and an ample helping of invasive surgery. She was conscious, of course.
Joanna Whitehall says: Did you have to house train her, Gerard?
Joanna Whitehall says: Impresive, very impressive. Does she do tricks?
Joanna Whitehall says: Your pet is wonderful, Gerard, but she needs a collar with a bell I think."
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As far as we know, every NPC involved with the above completely got away with it.
But let’s keep talking about how the Forsaken were all about freedom and belonging and liberation and all that crap
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In Legion Alliance Rogues were actually forced to share a class hall with PoS’s like Apothecary Keever
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I would have her not kill Garithos at all and just test his Honor and see if he is reasonable enough to let them walk out of the City alive enough for her to get in communication with the Dwarves on her way out whom she could use for her own ends.
Once she had properly sown the seeds and gotten Garithos to attack the Dwarves(for practically the same reason he attacked the Blood Elves) she’d use the Dwarves’ communications with Stormwind to have the Stormwind Humans declare War on Garithos and kill him while convincing the Dwarves to put a good word for the Forsaken with the Humans.
As for her hatred of the Humans that spawned Arthas: The Forsaken were among the Humans that spawned Arthas so they should be no different from the living Lordaeron Citizens. The fact that Garithos’s racism caused him to attack the Dwarves would be seen as proof enough to turn Stormwind and Theramore against Lordaeron.
Furthermore a few key possessions by Banshees could easily give Sylvanas a place in the Alliance with any objectors among the civilian populace put down by loyal members of the Stormwind Guard.
Sylvanas would convince Stormwind to deliver Garithos’s head to Silvermoon as a peace offering to get the Blood Elves back into the Alliance.
Garithos being Honorable enough to let the Forsaken walk out of the Capital alive yet Tyrannically Racist enough to declare war on the Dwarves for chatting with the Forsaken while they are on their way out will be the weakness Sylvanas needs to get the Forsaken into the Alliance.
With time and key possessions by Banshees she will get the Humans to see the Undead the same way the Humans loyal to Palawa Joko see Undead: A mark of Honor!
Studies would be made to perfect the Necromancy and communicate with the fabled Spirit Healers to find a form of Death Magic not harmed by the Light so as to create a more respectable form of Undead opposed to the Scourge.
Of course once she has sided with Zovaal she or Mueh’zala would presumably convince the Alliance to declare her the High Queen(reminding everyone that the High King was an elected position and that they aren’t obligated to make Anduin the High King at a young age) for her pragmatic leadership in rescuing them from the Legion at Broken Shore.
It would be relatively easy for Sylvanas to take advantage of old hatreds to invade Bilgewater Harbor and wipe it out. She could also make bargains with Talanji to convince her to work with the Zandalari and start violently purging Blood Trolls and Sethrak.
just wait until you find out what doctors did to real people in the 19th and 20th century as the precursor to modern medicine!
Giving Theresa a magical lobotomy seems tame by comparison.
It’s funny you should bring up the writers and their sexual deviancy, what’s really gross is the fact that Gerald Abernathy was named for a real life serial killer who murdered women, and Theresa looks like one of his victims, Wendy Stark.
Wow we’ve got a new contender for “worst take on the forums” from a rare non-Erevien source.
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