Uh huh
Anyway here’s all the times you’ve complained about frostreaper
3 Likes
Because Frostreaper is garbage design from the ground up.
-It hurts Frostscythe worth even if you disagree.
-It has no direct tuning knobs
-It makes it so you cant bring up the base damage of Obliterate without a nerf to mastery forcing more work to balance the spec.
-It puts way too much power into KM procs
You can ignore the facts all you want, but it is a garbage passive hurting sustain damage.
Why engage with Kelliste? They’re always rude and don’t add value to any thread. Just pretend they don’t exist and carry on.
2 Likes
Because i’m stuck at work for the next few hours and the boredom is kicking in.
I also searched for “KM rank 2” just to be curious.
Who else thinks Frostreaper is bad for the spec? I’m also kind of curious.
You can’t increase sustained damage outside of Pillars windows because of Frostreaper.
Take Frostreaper out of the equation, and now you can increase the base damage of Obliterate, can make Frostscythe worth it. Can also tune other abilities that deal frost damage without impacting Obliterate.
Edit: I do like big Oblit hits though <3
Interesting.
Even with Frostreaper no longer exist, you still won’t use FScy. All Frostreaper does is make Obliterate scale with Mastery with its AP ratio reduced to compensate thanks to October 2020 nerfs.
1 Like
Exactly - once you take away the Frost damage component from it, you can increase it’s base damage. You can still crit for 100k (for simplicity sake), and stop hitting for 10k outside of KM procs.
And without Frostreaper affecting Obliterates anymore, Frostscythe can benefit from Mastery and perhaps become an actual AoE talent again (it’ll still need a buff to compete against Cleaving Strikes though…which is an issue).
But!! Without Frostreaper, we can make it to where we actually wanna press Oblit outside of Pillar/KM windows
Because it locks a large portion of the spec’s damage into KM procs. But Kel is 100% wrong (shocker) as there is an independent tuning knob for it, which is the amount of Frost damage it does.
Frostreaper is inherently problematic and bad design due to what these forums want: you can’t have actual big Obliterates with it. You also can’t really buff Obliterate’s base damage without altering how much Frostreaper makes into Frost damage, which results in the core being very weak so that Obliterate can “feel” big with KM.
And buffing anything else except Frost Strike/GA will buff BoS and that’ll make these forums more mad, hence the issue with Frostreaper being a blocker towards removing the spec’s “wet noodle” problem.
Players are viewing FDK as blue Arms (methodical build up to a massive hitter) when it’s really Blue Enhance (lots of smaller hits that occasionally build up to larger hits).
It’s Cleaving Strikes & Frostreaper together.
Frostreaper, no CS → Scythe is the cleave & AoE spender
CS, no Frostreaper → Obliterate is the cleave spender, Scythe is the AoE spender
Frostreaper & CS together → Scythe becomes better at >20 targets, outside of its target cap
Without one of the two, Scythe would have a purpose, but at this point it’s just a talent that needs a massive rework/replacement.
So basically you two prefer a greater base damage for Obliterate that doesn’t scale with Mastery. Which is fine.
I think that’s the problem with the polarizing nature of BoS.
Frostscythe was worth running in 8.3. That was the last time when it was actually competitive enough to make Icecap an alternative to BoS.
When October 2020 nerfs came in along with the removal of Icy Citadel, FScy fell from grace very hard as far as Uther dropped Arthas into the Maw.
Right now, there is just no benefit for saving runes each global for more external benefits like Icy Citadel and Icecap. If anything with passives like Gathering Storm and Pillar Ramp, you are encouraged to spend MORE runes.
Adding another Obliterate cleave to DnD is like adding another Havoc for Destro that the spec didn’t really need (i mean I guess so for 2-handers for AoE?).
No, im not wrong. While you can tune it with nerfing mastery and increasing obliterate damage, now you have to buff everything else to compensate.
It has no direct or should i have said independent tuning knob.
Shocker, i was right.
Taking away Frostreaper without making Oblit always do Frost damage accomplishes nothing but hurting our scaling. Its why Frostreaper was introduced in the first place.
Oblit doing pure physical damage and having no scaling whatsoever is what lead to the nonsense Masterfrost build in MoP and it creates a whole separate tuning knob that has to be cranked up over and over and over and over for literally 1 ability. Making it physical would mean it only scales with Versatility which is by far our worst secondary. It would create a situation where 2H is screwed on secondaries because Vers does next to nothing for ALL of our other abilities.
I gather we all ultimately want the same thing. For Oblit to not be total garbage without a KM proc. So just bake Frostreaper into MotFW and make it apply at all times instead of just KM procs. Done. Now Oblit will always crit for a bit more than Frost Strike (as it should, being that its a 2 rune ability) and its damage can be adjust accordingly without hurting our scaling or screwing up our stat priority.
I don’t get whats so hard to grasp about this. Its smoothbrain to want Oblit turned back into pure physical damage.
Oh. I see who was wanting that…again. Makes sense. Casual Andy strikes again.
The 3rd target added onto the cleave very much so helps Oblit AoE. 2H moreso than DW for obvious reasons. That combined with the other damage buffs Frost got this week have really helped the spec from a numbers standpoint and its only going to get better with the talent tree changes coming soon. I haven’t run a ton of keys with it yet, but my results so far are great outside of mass AoE like Algrethar. AoE dummy testing in Valdrakken have shown me a roughly 135k sustained dps increase with 250k+ burst as opposed to ~90k sustained with the same build prior to the buffs. In my experience thus far, it looks like 2H Oblit is going to be the go-to for low-sane target counts with Unholy being better for highly coordinated mass pulls and Tryannical weeks in some dungeons thanks to its ridiculous single target damage while still having access to Epidemic for trash.
3 Likes
I’ll take your word for it.
On one hand I really wasn’t sure if the 3rd Obliterate was necessarily needed but on the other hand we got changes that we ACTUALLY needed like KM stacking we’ve been asking for years.
… Along with Unleashed Frenzy duration increase.
But the way they’re buffing Frostscythe along with the addition of the 3rd cleave just make me think that they really don’t know what they’re doing with this talent and by adding the 3rd cleave really puts it in the coffin.
I mean think about it:
- We have passives that encourage to spend rune as much as possible: GS, BoS, and Pillar’s core functionality.
- We have passives that encourage to spend globals to save runes: Icecap, Rime, Enduring Strength.
Comparatively speaking for those bulletpoints above, there is really no reason to do the 2nd bullet because the 1st one is just… makes a better result.
I dunno man. I guess I just miss 8.3 Frost, take this buff and PRAY they don’t nerf it like they did with Unholy’s Mastery.