I say we just put any mutated features under this category and call it a day (I mean Dire Orcs DO mutate quite a lot after the Bleeding process).
The Windrunner sisters being the nutjob portrayal kinda became a meme on it´s own.
But that happened BECAUSE the writers never considered them their own character but just tools to fulfill their “hawt elf waifu cause I´m WoW´s Aragorn” agenda (and with the recent revelations on the lawsuit well… does it surprise you?).
Ughh, anyone but the Tauren please. This leads DIRECTLY to Belves getting portrayed as massive Malfurion simps (cause the poor Tauren ARE portrayed as nothing but massive Malfurion simps).
I get that… Maybe someone else will have stepped in while we’ve been gone from Azeroth. Valewalker Farodin would be an awesome person to see come to Quel’thalas and perhaps plant another Arcan’dor tree. It is a unification of nature and arcane and needs to be where leylines are present to grow. Which is definitely why the sin’dorei chose to build their society in Quel’thalas. We could see a new Arcan’dor Tree as a way to see the Farstriders and Magisters begin to get along better as well.
She expressed interest in joining the Forsaken to co rule with Sylvanas, not exactly the same thing. Especially since she’d have to die in order to rule with Sylvanas. Something Sylvanas purposefully neglected to tell her in the beginning. She was also considering this because she didn’t know what the Alliance had to offer her anymore. Over all (and you can disagree) that part in particular is just garbage. She had two sons from the husband that she still thought about and wasn’t over his death (Three Sisters).
Again, since you directly quoted and then didn’t address it:
She’s started to forgive her people but still doesn’t fully trust them, as long as they’re a part of the Horde. Her people, the citizens and such, no I can’t imagine she holds any resentment against them. It’s more the leaders of the Blood Elves she’d have issues with, Lor’themar (although he’s pretty chill these days) and Rommath to name a couple.
I’d love some citations for this. All the High Elves in Outland and all the various lodges around Azeroth, as well as the High Elves affiliated with Dalaran and the Silver Covenant. Also keep in mind that the Silver Covenant isn’t some tiny military unit. They spear headed two different campaigns, both on the Isle of Thunder as well as the Suramar War campaign. So there are plenty of non Horde High Elves that directly and indirectly support the Alliance. Even Vereesa herself has hopes that the Blood Elves will rejoin the Alliance once they reflect on their past. So which is it, hardly any High Elves or enough to field an army? Does Vereesa accept the Blood Elves being in the Horde or not? There are too many writers and media and has muddied the lore sufficiently that these types of conversation even happen.
Not fan fiction. Khadgar had to stop her from shooting Rommath. Liadrin trusted the Nightelves more than her own people to watch her flank.
Yep, just watched the cut scene again. She basically ridicules them which I agree with, and she says the Quel’dorei (SC in this reference) are mingling with lesser races while the Sin’dorei are allying with misfits and monsters. Now why might someone ridicule two groups of the same people and point out how different they are if not to sow discord amongst them?
Anyway, I’m done arguing with you. You just keep following me around from thread to thread and it’s not productive to converse with you any longer. I’m not going to change your mind and unless you drop something truly mind blowing I haven’t read/been exposed to dealing with High Elf lore, you aren’t going to change my mind either. Good luck and hopefully in the next round of customizations after HMT Blood Elves get some good stuff.
Anything that guarantees the hypothetical Belf druids as divorced (and the bad kind of the divorce btw) from Malfurion simping I can support.
Tough i still like shamans more
And as “Blood of the Highborne” and ALL the lore since then proved it so (remember the novella may have gotten published until MoP times, but the actual story was waaay older and was written by TBC times just like Unbroken was), the leaders ARE kinda the reason why the Belves managed to survive and get out from that desperate ditch Arthas threw them into.
Which makes the inclusion of a moron like Veeresa hard to swallow for lore junkies like me, tbqh.
At times she is, but she also has a point. There are still Orcs from the Second War in the current Horde, as well as the Forsaken who at the time were Scourge who were responsible under Arthas for destroying Silvermoon. And while the Darkspear aren’t the Amani trolls, the Quel’dorei aren’t fond of trolls as a rule. The only race that was part of the Horde that the BEs didn’t have beef with (hehe) was the Tauren. So I can understand her aversion to the Horde due to all the hostile groups it has. And then of course post BC there’s the mana bombing of Theremore from the Horde and helped by rogue Sunreavers (her own people). So yeah, sometimes she does or acts stupid, but then sometimes she’s kinda justified in how she acts. There’s no consistency in her character.
As far as the BE leaders, I think the exiling is where the distrust and animosity started as far as BC times goes. I’d have to reread the Blood of the Highborne as it’s been ages though so there might be something I’m missing/forgetting.
theres nothing to address. if youre saying vereesa wishes harm upon her own people id love to see something to back it up
WHERE. it doesnt happen in the game nor is out of it. it is line with her disagreement with the magisters and they did create the blood knights but this isnt mentioned or seen anywhere. i know where you got this from check its source(there is none)
you can frame it like that but technically dalaran was part of the alliance at that time
game director sharing why the team said no to ‘high elves’
…“There’s a couple… We just met Alleria again… But they’re not out there in the same way…”
its an april 26 2018 q&a everyone knows the source look it up your self, so unless those groups are only a couple…they arent alliance affiliated. being friendly to your individual character doesnt change the reality
this is gaslighting. these were kirin tor campaigns. thats why its called the kirin tor offensive. not the SC offensive. in suramar vereesa shows up with khadgar and other kirin tor mages too. why do they only appear for the alliance WITH the kirin tor. its so weird
oh, you forgot to mention the big one. UNWORTHY OF THE NAME HIGH ELVES
I never once said she wishes harm on her own people, other than Rommath, and that was at the time of the Suramar campaign. Go replay it and talk to each character thoughout the campaign. It’s there.
Again, happens during the campaign. You have to actually talk to the characters apart from the just listening to the story beats. Similar to the “stay a while and listen” dialogues in SL, though not quite apparent.
Clearly there are more than a couple. If you’re taking a flippant remark meant in exactly that context as canon from the devs, then head canon away, I’m not going to change your mind when High Elf fans have done the math on roughly how many High Elves are actually out there, again from in game lore.
Yeah, they spear head the assault on both those places, fighting for, you guessed it, the Alliance. If there are so few of them (a couple lol) they couldn’t even field an army.
Yeah, Elisande said that, and that’s her OPINION. It doesn’t make them not High Elves because Elisande wants to ridicule them. Get out of here with that nonsense lol.
Oh, you changed it from what you had previously, did I have anything else? In fact I do. If you remember the Isle of Thunder campaign, Jaina and Vereesa faced off against Lor’themar and the Sunreavers and though they came to an accord, Vereesa didn’t want to back down stating that they killed her husband. So maybe I was wrong, she does wish at least a few of her people some harm.
Well gal, that´s kinda the whole point with the Belf evolution on the narrative. Veeresa represents that “old school” prejudiced selfish mentality of the Helves precisely cause she never experienced the horrors that Arthas brought with him. And didn´t mature in consequence thanks to that traumatic event.
Imagine how big was the loss of pride for the Belves, so big to the point they HAD TO look further than the appearances of those Orcs and Forsaken if they wanted to survive (remember, the -until WoD decided to trash them for the lols- explanation for Orc brutality WAS the Bloodlust that dominated them while under demon blood influence; under normal circumstances they were kinda ok? I mean only until Kil´jaeden intervened did the Orcs started to attack the Draenei, before the tow races literally ignored each other for years. and the Forsaken weren´t these "evul mad scientist trope2 either back then on the lore, they were actually people even more traumatized than the Belves themselves and that could relate to their suffering better than anyone, after all they had suffered even worse abuse under Arthas´ hands). The Belves were SO desperate that they HAD TO look further from the old hates and prejudices and take an actual legitimate real look to the WC3 Horde cast… and surprise: the monsters weren´t merely evul ugly monsters, they were people too that suffered and made mistakes and that could help them). And Veeresa ofc doesn´t know THIS, because she WAS NOT THERE whern the stuff happened. So the old hatreds are pretty much alive for her, she didn´t get the benefit of getting to know the Horde races, and based her whole judgment on stuff that happened under a different context in previous years.
I repeat: this only happens because the SC Helves -as harsh as it sounds- haven´t suffered enough to release themselves from their hubris and their prejudices. Like they say in my mother language: “es muy fácil ver los toros desde la barrera, eso lo hace cualquiera”.
The only Helf group that suffered a lot and was removed from Quel´thalas -canonically exiled, not other Helf group has been portrayed under this connotation- were the rangers from Quel´lithien, and they did it for very different reasons than “Belves talk to Undead lordaeronians”.
Gal, Theramore literally happened because her dumb husbando mistook the meaning of the word “neutral” (or more properly, believed the Kirin Tor TM meaning of it IS the real meaning of the word… Dalaran is neutral ONLY until they need to benefit some Alliance affiliated individual /agenda, sudedenly then it´s crucial to “involve themselves”). And she herself fomented the hatred against the Sunreavers, so what she expected them to love her as a result (remember Lor´themar´s leader short story, the part in which Aethas laments over Lor´themar NOT having good rep with Veeresa cause Veeresa already kinda hated the Belves for the lols?).
There´s consistency in her portrayal… she´s consistently portrayed as a childish naive and prejudiced individual, one that more times than not acts more like a teenager and NOT likethe adult woman and mother she is. I´ts quite the mess.
Nope, literally started in Day of the Dragon cause atthe end of the books Veeresa´s reasong was that Zendarin became a psycho NOT because of his own weakness and choices but because the Belves taught himn to Mana Tap and this somehow corrup0ted him /eyeroll.
Blood of the Highborne doesn´t deal AT ALL with the exile issue.
yea its not. i just did. vereesa actually seems to be missing now from the staging point of suramar. rommath doesnt even make a mention about the SC and hes actually relieved the kirin tor are there in case the kaldorei try anything funny. and ofc lanesh, a blue eyed blood elf npc that first appeared in mop is there too
thats weird. i distinctly remember vereesa being there and when you spoke to her she was surprised to be sharing a camp with night elves. kind of weird for someone who is always out there fighting for the alliance
its still fanfiction that you read and latched onto. if there was a source someone would have helped you out by now. all the regulars on this topic monitor this thread too
if the high elfers math was true, ‘high elves’ would have been a core race for the alliance in vanilla instead of shoving the night elves in and the lore and development wouldnt described them as a scattered few who always get mistaken for blood elves in alliance territory
during mop thats true. but dalaran and all its parts were neutral prior to the bell incident. and as of khadgar being in charge they are back to neutrality. they wont pick a side. but you think the devs are wrong and khadgar is allowing a tiny militia that lives in and operates in his city is out there attacking horde in all the alliance conflicts and points of interest on azeroth?
this is as pointless as bringing up the draining mana from living beings shtick. its irrelevant now as she knows who is to actually blame now
indeed. i think her point was that they arent the ACTUAL high elves. thats the blood elves who have a kingdom, population, and actual armies. SC dont even have a presence in dalaran anymore… why are you even arguing this still you got what you wanted. you can play a blood elf on alliance now
I’m with you with hating Malfurion. He’s honestly the worst character and just person in general. It would be nice to see another druid put him in his place as he’s done nothing to help the Cenarian Circle or much in the Druid Enclave Class Hall. There’s better druids to step in and push him to the side.
Yeah I agree with most of what you say. Although Theremore was going to happen regardless, Rhonin got killed as his own fault but he did save Jaina and anyone in the surrounding area (including Vereesa who was out in Duskwallow). In a way I agree with the Kirin Tor, they weren’t waging war, they were trying to prevent all out war from breaking out. Unfortunately for them there were consequences. Also Thalin, the one who helped take down the shields of Theremore, was a member of the Kirin Tor. Not sure if he would have been the one to do this if the Kirin Tor had remained neutral. Is it mentioned anywhere if Garrosh had another plan to get through those defenses if Thalin isn’t there? I mean they could have dropped that bomb anywhere in Duskwallow and it still would have leveled Theremore it was so powerful so it might not be relevant lol. But regardless of whether it was Rhonins choice and fault he died, Vareesa understandably holds a grudge. Oh and yeah, she’s definitely prejudiced. Not sure anyone could argue that.
I need to reread this, it’s a bit hazy but I didn’t realize that animosity went back that far. Thanks for clearing that up
I don´t even "hate2 him, i just want to get my own Horde characters as a leader model for once? I´s kinda fed up with the Horde players getting “mentored” by all and every FOTM Alliance / formerly Alliance / Alliance flavored character.
If Blanduin is the lore back hole of the general narrative, Malfurion IS the lore black hole of the druid narrative… he´s so Big that he literally eclipses everything else, and not even Darkspear Trolls managed to escape from him.
As someone who lives in acountry with a kinda 50 years and counting civil esque war, let me tell you that taking sides while pretending one is “neutral” is NOT trhe way to achieve this. That just comes as hypocrisy and political maneuvering (which is EXACTLY what happened in Tides of War. If the Kirin Tor was SO involved in preventing War, pray tell why didnñ´t they involve themselves since the arbitrary commercial cease of operations from the Nelves -that pushed the Orcs to invade to get the stuff and so on…).
Oh they most definitely are pro Alliance, regardless of what they say. But the scale of what Garrosh was planning they felt was too big to ignore. It was the city of one of their own mages, Jaina, that probably contributed to their decisionas well. And it was such a big deal that even Khadgar requested help from A’dal in Outland. In fairness to the Kirin Tor, once Theremore was roasted, they denied Jaina’s request to counter attack Orgrimmar with Dalaran and it was Kalecgos who ultimately stopped her from mass tidal waving Orgrimmar. So it was big enough they didn’t want it to ignite into all out war, even though it did somewhat. Not in fairness to the Kirin Tor, most of them probably remember the Second War, if not the First for the older Kirin Tor members so there is likely some prejudice toward the Horde also influencing their decisions.
Edit: starting too many sentences with “and” was really bothering me.
there is so much prejudice that all horde mages start friendly with the kirin tor and they allow any member of the horde to reside there. as long as they respect the neutrality of dalaran ofc
Please, the Kirin Tor only say they care as long as they can use you to fulfill their agenda. It´s as I mentioned pure political maneuvering.
After all there are dumb morons like Aethas that require more than a genocidal attempt fully done under the Kirin Tor´s nose to get they are only as valuable as they are useful (I mean there´s a reason why Rommath became one of my heroes after “In the Shadow of the Sun” was launched… I suppose in a very weird way I sympathizise with the most blunt no nonsense character on that story. Cause that´s how I post too and how i try to behave in this place: with blunt honesty).
