BFA Unholy Death Knight Feedback (Cont.)


(Inemia) #448

you’re the pot calling the kettle black here. you think it was some extensive complex thing to manage when it wasn’t.


(Ryudaraku) #449

No it didn’t, that is a straight up lie if you played Necro Plague, Unholy Blight pretty much instantly stacked it to 15, that was the entire mechanic. “Maintain Plague for the 1:30 seconds that it would take Unholy Blight to recharge.” and that entire mechanic and was not remotely hard to cover, barring getting really unlucky with getting targeted with raid mechanics could be done with almost no effort.

The entire Necroblight Rotation mechanic was done for you with Weak Auras, to the point where there was a weak aura that would tell you how many Festering Strikes you would need to cast before Unholy Blight came up.

There was no Ramp up, There were no CDs because if you really fell behind on the counter you had Rune Tap to give you an instant Festering Strike and give you time to fix yourself. The only punishment for screwing up your Plague Duration was missing on the window for Proc effects or Trinket Usage…something that didn’t matter for 2/3s of the expansion because the only Stat Proc we had was a 70%+ uptime anyways because Rune of the Fallen Crusader’s RPPM was affected by haste.

and what was the “BIG PAYOFF” to that? A vanilla dot, how is that any different from Timmy’s Auto Attacks doing more damage? To me…it isn’t neither produce resources, neither affect gameplay in any interesting way it is just invisible damage.

And that is what people were complaining about, that is why the Bracers kept getting nerfed…OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

And this is why you don’t like it because you don’t like the “theme” of it. If they had named them Necrotic Wounds and Renamed Festering Strike to Necrotic Strike you would be drooling over how “Great they are”

What do you think Festermight is? it is the closest thing that will happen to Festerblight again, because FesterBlight with the current Rune System would be laughably easy and devolve into 2 button rotations, and the Rune System needed to be changed. It was fundamentally broken in some aspect for all 3 specs, and mind you we are at a 1.5 Second baseline GDC now which would mean we have to spend more actions on Festering Strikes to maintain it.

The Duration was extendable for Festering Strike, it was the only power in the DK toolkit that could do it, because without being able to do it, Festering Strike would be absolutely worthless once the thing hit 15 stacks.

The amount of bending over the Development Team did for Necrotic Plague was kind of Absurd.

You couldn’t keep it forever, but you could roll it long enough for Blight to Recharge…which instantly refreshed it to 15 stacks, and it was absurdly easy to do in a patchwork encounter you could legit do it with 2 sets of Death Runes spend on your Festering Strike.


(Gurthäng) #450

Thats my point it wasnt something over complex with a lot of interaction as he makes it sound it was.


#451

Frankly speaking , I don’t think they will make any changes to playstyle anytime soon. Doubt they like players suggest playstyles to them, its their game. From a designer point of view, you would not like people contributing too much ideas to your desgn. That how I feel it.
Most Unholy players would be happy if the just make AMZ baseline and buff our ST shadow damage abilities.


(Ryudaraku) #452

Oh okay my bad.


(Fookí) #453

true… with the exception of how they seem to listen to the whiners in the forums and make knee-jerk decisions based on their outcries.


(Ryudaraku) #454

They would never make a half baked change that would destroy a spec’s usefulness based on edge cases like one in one raid or a tier set that would be going away would they?

cough Zul and Sublety, cough Blackrock Foundry Demonology cough Throne of Thunder Unholy cough


(Tyfus) #455

Not a lie at all.
UB had a 1.5 min cd, so there were plenty of instances out in the world, in dungeons, or during mechanics where NP could fall off without having UB so you’d have to stack manually.

So?
This game is not rocket science. You didn’t need a 200 IQ to play necroblight either, it was just better than what we have now.

There are plenty of other rotations (then and now) that are made much easier with addons, doesn’t mean that everyone used them or that they made the specs less fun.

The problem with the bracers were getting them, the wild RNG swings, and the fact that there were better legendaries later on. All of those are easily fixed within the context of bfa.

I highly doubt that since even with the best theme, they would still play like crap. But hey if you can convince the devs, I’ll give it a shot lol.

Festermight is a decent enough idea, but it’s dragged down by the underlying system which is unfortunately wounds.


(Ryudaraku) #456

Yes and it was absurdly easy to extend NP to last 1.5 Minutes.

If you actually needed plague out in the world I pity you, even my “scrub” heroic level toon was geared enough to facerol through every mob in the outside world by the end of High maul.

and dungeons were a joke outside of Challenge Dungeons so NP sacking mattered in the most edge of edge cases possible. I bet you are going to tell me that Dark Simulacrum was “a super awesome utility” because it could steal a heal from one boss in one dungeon.

That is an opinion, it is no different from what we have now. crappy non interactive spell vs crappy non interactive auto attacks, and it is amusing how you instantly turn from “Oh it was so full of gameplay” to “This game isn’t rocket science.” when people point out that your vaunted Necroblight was just as face roll easy as Festering Wounds are.

So you admit that people were complaining about the Bracer RNG, and that Festering Wounds having no real mechanics to is our own fault because the community complained about RNG, and continues to complain about any RNG that ever shows up in this game.

Given that I can’t go into the past, I don’t think you would give it a shot because even if they renamed it now you would just say “Oh its the Zits under another name.”

Nah it is dragged down by Strength being worthless because the community whined about “the numbers are too high” so they cut the Power gains from primary stats in half…which means primary stats have no teeth behind them.

The wound system is 90% fine, you have a problem with it because you somehow look back at WoD Unholy with some massive nostalgia, you want your garbage tier generic dot back. Mind you the creation of that Dot was one of the things that began the gutting of Unholy’s Thematic elements.

Necroblight was boring, it sucked and I will take Festering Wounds over it any day of the weak because at least Wounds can be tuned to make Scourge Strike fun again. Necrotic Plague could never be actually tuned to do anything but warp the entire spec around it’s existence and warping the specs existence around non-interactive things is terrible.

It was bad with Necrotic Plague
It was bad with Dark Arbiter
It is bad with Auto attacks.


(Tyfus) #457

lol missed half my points but whatever at least you got that angry rant out.

Current wound system is clunky, not fun, and performs poorly.
NP was better on all counts.
They can make wounds better, hence the suggestions, but a redesign is preferred.


#458

If its clunky to you, maybe somewhere you might be doing it wrongly. With Soul Reaper and Unholy Frenzy it should smooth out rune regen.

I guess its down to personal preference to say if wound system is fun or not.

The only downside of wounds is bad at target switching and kinda low on damage.


#459

they really need to just go back to the 2-3 disease (blood plague, frost fever, ebon plague) playstyle. spreading your diseases with pestilence felt absolutely amazing and it was great when scourge strike had a damage multiplier for each disease on your target.

i remember in bfa beta i suggested a system that revolved around 4 diseases (each having its own passive debuff and only 1 of them being a dot). when you scourge strike, it would randomly consume one of the diseases to summon a ghoul that had a more powerful effect of the disease that was consumed by SS. festering would be a strike with a moderate cd that would deal heavy damage and consume all diseases to summon a ghoul for each one consumed (kinda like how apocalypse is now). but alas, here we are.


#460

You just summed up what makes unholy un-fun. You can smooth out your rune generation and make the class feel un-clunky at the cost of eliminating any meaningful talent choice. Those talents are now mandatory (PVE) if you don’t want the class to feel like you are playing a totally under developed spec.

The icing on the cake and kick to the crotch:

‘I’m a slow moving juggernaut and once I catch you, you’d better stand still while I wack you with this noodle 6 times… oh crap, brb gotta get these adds…’

Fun for me? No… but hey different strokes.


#461

Other talent in that row is “still” viable, difference of 1k dps. You will need more haste though.

From what I read in forum, is most unholy players is ok with the wound system. As I said playstyle is personal preference. Main problem is our low ST shadow abilities’ damage. Death coil can be a very good target switch burst-down ability depends if they want to do it. (consume X amount of rp to do X dmg, up to a certain cap). We could save resource for important add switch this way, which I feel is the unholy weakest play at the moment.

There are a lot of good ideas floating around, but its their game. Just trying to say, Its hard enough to get Dev to fix the current problem. I rather they just try to improve current spec than dismantle and redesign again. Which is unlikely. At this point is really just echoing what others and myself are saying all these while.


#462

With all the recent discussions going on in the forums between Festering Wounds and Disease management combat systems, I’ve decided to make a poll to see which is more preferred among the DK community. Please vote!

https://strawpoll.com/f569r2ye


(Gurthäng) #463

And AGAIN that is your opinion. You keep forgetting to add that on your posts.


(Gurthäng) #464

I think you should check how dks are performing in pvp before posting crap like that. Only pve numbers are lacking for unholy. Also pve always had the go to build with the highest output, choice was never really a thing.


(Rockford) #465

Just note, you can fit a working link with the use of the </> tool.


#466

Okay, since Dk’s are performing well in PVP there should be no discussion on the state of the class in PVE? I enjoy PVP casually but I play for PVE content and am disappointed in the current state of the class.

As for the highest output talents, sure min-maxing is not new, however I’m not speaking of DPS output. The talents we choose shouldn’t be taken to fix how the class plays, it should make the class more interesting and add more depth.

’In my opinion’ they can tune the numbers all they want, it’s not a numbers issue. The logic of a slow juggernaut that has a lengthy setup time seems fundamentally flawed.

Again, ‘in my opinion’ wounds would be ok if they went the way of rogue combo points - applied to the player rather than the target; In other words, wounds would be a buff to the DK rather than a de-buff to the target.


(Gurthäng) #467

I never said that, ive been only pveing and the state the spec in pve is ridiculous.
But that doesnt change the fact that in pvp unholy is performing well if you close the gap on ppl with full cds up you can pulverize them, assuming you dont get kited away.

Well the row he was refering to is the soul reaper row. It doest really “smooth” out the rotation, ofc runes on deman and a small bit of dps gain as a dot will always be chosen on top of everything else, specialy if the other options are heavily rng based and dont give any real dps boost, that row is really poor designed. Having harbinger of doom is this forum fault cause ppl begged for the artifact trait to stay, and we got that. And as for UF it sims higher than the other two by 2-3k so even it THAT smooths out the rotation, not much choice there, unless you dont care about your dps.

Sure that would help with target switching but then we would turn into a plate rogue and having talents to spread wounds in aoe would require to be removed. Imo the target switching wouldnt be so bad if popping a wound were actualy meaninful and FS did some serious damage to make up for the 2 rune cost.
But we have frost obliterate barely hitting higher than a auto attack so yeah, its all numbers tunning.