BFA Unholy Death Knight Feedback (Cont.)


(Urioh) #21
I think Unholy Blight might just be in the wrong talent row.

EF and BS require you to choose between Sustained damage(Dot focused) and Burst damage(Wound Focus). I dont really see where UB fits here.

Would rather see it moved to the tier 100 row in place of Aotd

Or the tier 90 row in place of pestilence/defile

Could replace its placement in the tier 57 row with a Pet damage Focused increasing talent

I think Clawing shadow being baseline can be argued if only the pure shadow damage part of the spell. The range would be a bit too much imo.

To replace it with Necrosis would be interesting. I really really really loved necrosis in NH so if that was to come back id be pretty happy about it.

(Inemia) #22
10/26/2018 07:41 AMPosted by Urioh
I think Clawing shadow being baseline can be argued if only the pure shadow damage part of the spell. The range would be a bit too much imo.


i don't think the range is too much, we still do optimal dps in melee range with autoattacks

(Rothulian) #23
10/26/2018 08:53 AMPosted by Inemia
10/26/2018 07:41 AMPosted by Urioh
I think Clawing shadow being baseline can be argued if only the pure shadow damage part of the spell. The range would be a bit too much imo.


i don't think the range is too much, we still do optimal dps in melee range with autoattacks


Especially considering auto attacks are usually our top damage source single target!

(Braymo) #24
bump

(Rothulian) #25
Would be nice if our other thread got extended....

(Razeal) #26
VP should be affected by haste, like every other dot in the game.

(Mythená) #27
10/27/2018 03:56 AMPosted by Razeal
VP should be affected by haste, like every other dot in the game.
Agreed. And that would remove the 'need' for Ebon Fever, like how Jagged Wounds is removed from Ferals when their bleeds are now working with haste.

Which is a good thing. Bout time that row 57 get some much needed talent diversity.

10/26/2018 03:55 PMPosted by Rothulian
Would be nice if our other thread got extended....
It appears that our 'message' still can't get through.

(Razeal) #28
Stat scaling in longer single target fights unholy overall is awful as well.

Seems like every 10 ilvl I gain actually drops the value of Strength. Crit nearly being of equal value as MS can't be intended, but that's what you get with these trash AP mods. BM hunters LITERALLY scale better than UDK with gear in single target.

There is no way Unholy went live in this poor of a state by accident. The development team should be ashamed of itself, so should the mods for not extending the last UDK thread.

(Mythená) #29
I agree that stat scaling is an issue, but it is also partly due to how our damage is distributed.

Take for example, our current damage model is like what the following poster described:
10/26/2018 02:26 AMPosted by Brandone
Unholy is currently a very well designed spec. I like how this spec has 3 main sources of damage. These being pets, diseases, and popping wounds.
Pets, Disease and Wounds/Strikes form the triangle on how we output our damage.

Whether we personally like this trifecta or don't, the problem is all 3 component has their own issues with scaling, which compounds the problem even more.

Mastery is a pretty 'decent' stat which boost disease and strikes, but has almost zero contribution to pets and summons. The ironic part is Gargoyle/Arbiter was fixed to scale with mastery, but that is now a talent. Haste scales with auto attacks, and boost the pets as well, but Disease was excluded.

Simply put: no matter how much they boost the bonus we can get with the stats, always one part of our 3 component is not affected by said bonus.

Our current ratio of pet damage > disease/strikes makes mastery a somewhat 'dead' stat for us. But if we flip the switch, becoming disease/strikes > pet damage, Haste becomes a dead stat because "hey! Haste don't affect Disease!"

(Thorhammer) #30
Don't know much about Unholy, but I"ve played it a little bit. I think Epidemic should be a baseline ability. A single target, and AoE rune spender should be a baseline part of the toolkit in my opinion.

Makes no sense to have it as a talent.

(Urioh) #31
10/27/2018 10:30 AMPosted by Thorhammer
Don't know much about Unholy, but I"ve played it a little bit. I think Epidemic should be a baseline ability. A single target, and AoE rune spender should be a baseline part of the toolkit in my opinion.

Makes no sense to have it as a talent.


yeah i definitely agree with this sentiment.

(Rothulian) #32
Epidemic will go baseline at some point. Its too vital.

(Urioh) #33
Welp im curious to see what they do with us on ptr thats for sure

(Rothulian) #34
10/26/2018 01:12 AMPosted by Urioh
10/25/2018 11:27 PMPosted by Ryudaraku
So uh, any updates on that All Will Serve revamp that was supposed to show up for 8.1?


AWS had its animation bug fixed on ptr that was caused by the AI fix they did in bfa pre patch.

So looks like they are at least working it on.
Unsure if they are still considering revamping the entire talent though.
But given AWS's run so far id like if it was changed completely.


This also means AWS is about to dominate its row even more. Its been pretty close to dominating it already. But CS has been a little stronger/more flexible in M+ to date. Thats definitely going to change.

Now AWS perfectly switches targets, no longer moves when we move (unless it cant hit the target), and never ever interrupts a cast....which means it will scale with haste in 8.1. And that also means its about to become the top talent choice of its row for every situation. By a LOT.

Dont get me wrong, I appreciate the bug fixes for it. But its the most passive option of that row. The most passive option shouldnt do the highest damage.....

(Razeal) #35
10/27/2018 10:18 AMPosted by Mythená
Haste becomes a dead stat because "hey! Haste don't affect Disease!"


Not quite, haste is still valuable for Unholy no matter where our damage is because of rune regen and increased chance on SD procs from more auto attack. I agree that not scaling our dot with haste is part of an overall problem that you describe in your post, which is well written and frames the problem in a clear way.

10/27/2018 10:18 AMPosted by Mythená
Simply put: no matter how much they boost the bonus we can get with the stats, always one part of our 3 component is not affected by said bonus.


I feel like this should be a sticky in the DK forum all by itself. 100% bang on.

10/28/2018 02:12 AMPosted by Rothulian
Dont get me wrong, I appreciate the bug fixes for it. But its the most passive option of that row. The most passive option shouldnt do the highest damage.....


It will as long as our global damage is tuned so badly. It also has an advantage which you hinted at; it doesn't have to deal with a global cd. It has an internal cd which isn't the same thing.

(Urioh) #36
10/28/2018 02:12 AMPosted by Rothulian
<span class="truncated">...</span>

AWS had its animation bug fixed on ptr that was caused by the AI fix they did in bfa pre patch.

So looks like they are at least working it on.
Unsure if they are still considering revamping the entire talent though.
But given AWS's run so far id like if it was changed completely.


This also means AWS is about to dominate its row even more. Its been pretty close to dominating it already. But CS has been a little stronger/more flexible in M+ to date. Thats definitely going to change.

Now AWS perfectly switches targets, no longer moves when we move (unless it cant hit the target), and never ever interrupts a cast....which means it will scale with haste in 8.1. And that also means its about to become the top talent choice of its row for every situation. By a LOT.

Dont get me wrong, I appreciate the bug fixes for it. But its the most passive option of that row. The most passive option shouldnt do the highest damage.....


uhhh about that fix LOL

https://clips.twitch.tv/FlirtyBigSrirachaBIRB

i found this while playing around with how much haste affected him .... ive reported it but uhm yeah

AWS is the gift that keeps on giving

(Razeal) #37
The following pertains to Single Target:

So I get a 355 wep and equip it, sim myself on single target fight. Strength was valued at 1.85 with a 345 wep, when I sim with the 355 wep it drops to 1.72.

This sort of decay pushes secondaries 'up' artificially to the point where if you're Urioh crit is more valuable than strength. I simmed you as you were a few days ago on raidbots and it had crit ahead of str by .07-.10 I can't remember which.

I'm pretty sure this is actually counter to the intent of the developers and their goals for main stat value. I'm positive this is caused by improperly tuned AP modifiers on our abilities, in conjunction with the -8% on our damage aura.

You developers are so out of touch with your product that your designs are contradicting your philosophy of design goals, in such a direct way that it's actually funny.

The different crit modifiers on every single one of our damage abilities needs to go; normalize everything to our actual bloody crit modifier as well.

Wake up.

(Paint) #38
Yeah the -8% aura for our damage is a huge mistake. We need that damage and if it causes scaling issues even worse

(Rothulian) #39
<span class="truncated">...</span>

This also means AWS is about to dominate its row even more. Its been pretty close to dominating it already. But CS has been a little stronger/more flexible in M+ to date. Thats definitely going to change.

Now AWS perfectly switches targets, no longer moves when we move (unless it cant hit the target), and never ever interrupts a cast....which means it will scale with haste in 8.1. And that also means its about to become the top talent choice of its row for every situation. By a LOT.

Dont get me wrong, I appreciate the bug fixes for it. But its the most passive option of that row. The most passive option shouldnt do the highest damage.....


uhhh about that fix LOL

https://clips.twitch.tv/FlirtyBigSrirachaBIRB

i found this while playing around with how much haste affected him .... ive reported it but uhm yeah

AWS is the gift that keeps on giving


It would be nice if they would just remake that talent in 8.1. Sadly thats not going to happen until 9.0.

(Sphyr) #40
hmmm has anybody looked at the dot damage the amount of damage that it shows in tooltip I mean. Its really low compared to others n extremely low compared to our counterpart frost. for example

me im at 358 item lvl im unholy the tool tip for our disease virulent plague deals 6,349 shadow damage over 10.5 sec. right and that's with the buff talent too.
Talent (Ebon fever)- which increases our virulent plague damage by 15% in half the time.
with out that talent for me virulent plague does 5,523 shadow damage over 21 sec. yes not much of a difference right don't even seem noticeable I think.

But heres the interesting part I switched to frost changed some gear n weps my item lvl dropped to 355 (not much) n guess wat frost fever the frost disease it still does more damage. I looked on tooltip on bar or spell book it ses the frost disease does 12,592 damage over 24 sec which also on chance to regenerate 5 runic power wen it deals damage.
Pillar of frost, Which pillar of frost increases our strength by 15% for 15 sec which then our frost fever disease now does 14,231 damage over 24 sec.

u get my point here or get wat i mean

I believe there was even a youtube video bout all this by Hazzed bout frost n the dot damage. That the frost fever dot is doing the most and top damage for frost which isn't right.

I think upping the dot damge for unholy will do good not just for pve but for pvp. I dont think its very fair if u got theres classes hitting for 20k+ damage/crits n we unholy only doing wat 2k or less damage specially in pvp. To me I think everything be fine long as the dot damage gets ramped up again way it was. maybe im wrong maybe some other spells will help too but to me the disease is our main source of damage. As I sed our damage is in our disease not only it will help single target but aoe wise as well. The damage the frost fever does seems like it should of gone to unholy. Everyone knows frost aint bout disease n there bout being in ur face n bursting relying on frost strike and obliterate for damage not no disease right? unlike unholy its slower like affliction basically just spreading dots applying pressure.

I checked out the buff in patch 8.1 and tbh it dont seem much n only benefits to pvp which i believe sounds like crap be interesting yes but wheres our damage on it all we be doing is debuffing n waiting for help thats wat it sounds like to me. W still wont have no damage to compensate maybe im wrong i dont know will c i guess.