BFA Unholy Death Knight Feedback (Cont.)


#366

Still nothing for us huh? *sigh


#367

Unholy needs a lot of love. There are way too many cooldowns on this spec, and if none of them are up, it feels like you’re fighting with toothpicks. It doesn’t help that you have to juggle a pet, diseases, pseudo combo points, runes and runic power. Combine that with the general slowness of DK makes playing a slog, with your damage feeling not impactful or fun, even if the numbers are there.

  1. Get rid of pet transformation and give dks some sort of kill-command esque ability instead that generates runic power. 2 Charges.

  2. Get rid of the disease system. Give festering a strike a cooldown that can have a chance to be reset with the use of the above ability and generate runic power.

  3. SS is for dumping runes and filler.

  4. Make epidemic baseline.

I know this makes UH a bit more generic, but it would go a long way to making it more fun to play and the damage to feel more impactful with less rampup.

That’s to start. The other problem with this spec is the animations / visuals. It’s incredibly
bland. Especially for a class/spec with such a strong theme. Why is DnD using the blood visual? Clawing shadows is just a boring purple tinge to your racial animation (Which all are terrible and need to be removed / redone, but that’s a separate thread). It should shoot a purple claw out of your weapon using the Death Coil animation (or something along those lines). Maybe have your DK grow more diseased and rotting the more runic power you have (grow bones, exhude green vapor), etc.


#369

Play style is fine or rather it is quite engaging already. Just need to bump up the numbers by a bit.

  1. Army of the dead needs a buff to justify its 8min cd or lower it to 5mins.
  2. Unholy need a execute for its fantasy. Shouldn’t Deathlord be hysteric when their target is dying. As their soul is closer to being drawn out.
  3. The 1st thing to make baseline should be AMZ. I don’t even mind a nerfed one.
  4. Could really use a buffed Death Coil as a potential target switcher. Death Coil can be like, Deal X extra dmg per runic power consumed up to X amount of runic power. So we can pool resource and spend it when important target switching.
    Just these 4 changes can already improve unholy spec to be more engaging and useful in raids already.

(Ryudaraku) #370

So the Perfection Essence Proc? sort of completely useless for Unholy.

It in theory summons Ghouls at the rate of “half the duration of Apocalypse” however
because of the spawn animation the Ghouls basically get one or two attacks before despawning.


(GurthÀng) #371

Sounds like a bug, the description says that it summons a ghoul for 15 secs just like Apoc does.


(Ryudaraku) #372

That is what I assumed until I saw it was doing half of the cooldown for other classes and that the tooltip was just wrong since all of the other summons are half the duration.

Either way it is bugged, or needs a change to accommodate ghouls having an arbitrarily long animation.


#373

Not sure if ghouls will be fixed like Dark Arbitar during Legion. Iirc DA timer was extended or start to cd only after the first cast/attack. See if you can track your ptr logs to see ghouls uptime.


#374

Regardless it’s a weak trait, especially when compared to what some of the others get.

I mean if it was Magus or the ghouls had their old abilities from Legion it might have been better, but one current ghoul from AOTD even attacking for the full 15 secs is pretty weak.


(Ryudaraku) #375

That Depends on the proc rate, if it gives us 4 ghouls every 1.5 Minutes it is roughly as powerful as Apocalypse.


(FookĂ­) #376

they need to just put army on a 3min cd and nerf the damage
 that way they can buff our single target damage from death coil, festering, and scourge strike.


#377

They could actually remove AoTD and bake it in to apoc so that it summons more undead and they last longer. In terms of damage it could even remain as much as 85% of the current value and not be overpowered when comparing the DPS values of other melee this would only put the UH DK around middle of the pact. The key factor is the screwed scaling for many DK abilities which are still procs per minute meaning only benefited by HASTE and STR. Vers doesn’t even factor this is the biggest issue overall DPS both specs have scaling issues which the other classes don’t and if they fixed that one thing instead of dancing around it like they have been for the last 3 expansions

Then they could replace the AoTD with a decent class ability on a 2 - 3 min cooldown like the UH DK becomes the essence of pestilence transforming into an effigy of Morzuun the Plaguebringer for 20 seconds while in this form the DK radiates an aura which causes all within an 8 yard range to take 200% damage from all the DKs plague. In addition all targets are stricken by the overwhelming feeling of dread and despair causing them to be immobilised and cowering in fear and if dispelled or resisted they are marked with a mark of death causing the DKs wounds and plague on that target to be activated immediately removing them and instantly damaging the target for 75% of their damage. The additional 25% is converted in to a necrotic wound on that target which absorbs all healing and absorption abilities until enough healing or absorption is done to bypass the value.

That would be fun



(Ryudaraku) #378

And another cooldown would fix our main single target rotation feeling like a wet noodle how? The Problem in Unholy Death Knight isn’t in the Cooldowns making a “fun” Cooldown will still make the other 80% of the time that it isn’t active still be not fun.


#379

You realise ho much of our actual damage is reduced because of the amount of damage AOTD does? All our core abilities actually get a negative modifier in game because of that on ability which actually now doesn’t compare to other classes damage. Previously this did a fair bit of damage but it was balanced and our main strikes etc. hit hard and scaled.

We not have skills that do very low damage and most of our sustained damage is coming from plague ticks and our white melee hits
 generally you will have AoTD being 3rd or 4th on your damage breakdown for 1 use in a fight.

If the removed this skill it would allow for that balance of power to be distributed better to areas we need it and in doing so will increase our throughput. This has been discussed so many times just how much of our dps is curtailed because of AoTD and its not doing anywhere near enough now to make it viable. If they increased its damage by 200% and then had all the ghouls explode for 300% of the damage they did it still wouldn’t put us in a position where the cooldown on it actually made it worth it


(Ryudaraku) #380

And whose fault is that? Having Army Ghouls and Apocalypse Ghouls on the same scaling was always asking for trouble, but you all wanted it so you could have your button, because god forbid they get rid of an artifact ability that was a worse version of Army.

Not that the ghouls were all that great on their own, cause well they were carried by Dragged to Helhiem and the boost off the Legendary Shoulders, but they had to buff the crap out of The Ghoul damage because the community just HAD to have their shiny freaking button, and your magic Solution is a different shiny button.

Something I have repeatedly complained about being a huge source of vanilla damage.

A problem across every Melee (and Hunter) class.

And you want to remove it, and put another skill in it’s place another skill they will have to balance around.

It does too much damage, but not enough damage somehow.

Meanwhile Unholy in the Mythic Dungeon Invitational
Meme Unholy AOE burst build, which features Scourge Strike and Festering Wounds being used for AOE. I wonder why in the past two expansions the main buff Unholy has seen has been “Death Coil Damage”

PS : Actual Feedback - Death Coil Runic Cost is a leftover from the absurd Resources we had last expansion, can it get reduced to something reasonable.


(FookĂ­) #381

that’s why we’ve been suggesting they get rid of that ridiculous 8min cd and make it 3/5min, reduce the damage it does accordingly, then bake the difference into our main attacks. i’d even like to see apoc get changed for the pvp talent- a more powerful dot with a cd, instead of ghouls that don’t even attack for the first 3s or so.


#382

Just get rid of Aotd and apoc ghouls they dont do anything cool since they removed all the good things they did legion with the artifact traits i would rather the buttons i push now actually mean something when i use them then all my dmg be passive fire and forget


(Ryudaraku) #383

But replacing one cooldown with another won’t solve the problem, it won’t fix anything because they can’t buff our main attacks for ST effect without blowing our AOE out of proportion.


(FookĂ­) #384

yes they can. festering strike doesn’t have much to do with aoe with the exception adding those stupid bursting sores - scourge strike is the the same, but it bursts said sores which is where the aoe ramps. see the common denominator? all they would need to do is increase the actual strikes’ damage and not affect the stupid sores
 or better yet, remove that mechanic completely.

as far as the cooldowns are concerned, they’ve already replaced them in pvp and work nicely. why not implement that with pve as well?


#385

While the sores don’t bother me, I agree there is zero reason Festering can’t be buffed, scourge might be dangerous because it does cleave inside of Death and Decay regardless of the sores, but I’m honestly not sure how big a deal it is.

But Festering, for a two rune strike certainly should have room to gain some power.


(GurthÀng) #386

Thats no excuse did you try spamming ss inside dnd without stacking or spreading wounds around? It does shi tty aoe damage. The thing is when talented into aoe spreading wounds, stacking wounds on the main target, the festermight trait and pilling up 10+ adds on top of each other. In most case scenarios you dont have the time to do that kind of setup specialy in raids.