Is it really you? Is Bandet 7 coming soon?
Ironically, this is what happens whenever attempts are made to try, for example, to implement the old SV spec into another existing spec.
To actually get that beloved playstyle back, youâd need to change quite a few things with any existing spec, to the point where that spec would no longer retain itâs previous core design.
If they only do a few things, we end up just like with MM in Legion where we had the worse version of Black Arrow(a scourge boar? Really?), not to mention the abomination that was the new design of Explosive Shot(BfA version still is nowhere near what it was prior to Legion).
Adding in that 4th spec would allow them to move away from this mindset in terms of the other existing specs.
Having said that. Is it a very likely scenario that weâll see a 4th spec in the future? Probably notâŚ
But all we can do is try to convince them(the devs) that it IS the best option.
What is but a fact, is that the demand for a playable version of the old ranged SV spec, it will never go away as long as this game is still up.
Refusing to add in a 4th spec option to a class simply because you donât think classes should have 4 specsâŚthis doesnât make sense to me.
If there is a playstyle currently not in existence within a class, if that playstyle has an identity of itâs own compared to the other specs, and if itâs also capable of filling a âvoidâ in terms of advantages and what the class would be considered to be good at.
In a case like this, it would make sense to give a class that 4th spec option.
Will it take time and work to make it good? Yep. It always does in terms of new specs and classes.
But, it would be worth it!
Note: Yes, this would want other classes to have a 4th spec option as well. No doubt.
But, demanding a 4th spec just so you can play for example melee Survival but with 2 1-handed weapons.
Or, demanding a 4th spec so you can get Beast Mastery but with more(or less) focus on beasts.
These, are not valid reasons to ask for a 4th spec.
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Is it really you? Is Bandet 7 coming soon?
Lol, yes itâs me. No, probably notâŚ
My movies were always about using all the utility of hunters (and various items/world buffs) to engage 4+ people and come out on top. We just donât really have the toolkit to do this like I did in Bandet 4 or Bandet 6.
A world pvp movie in BfA would basically just be me running around and bursting people down faster than they burst me down, or a montage of cliffs and explosive trap. Very boring. I canât even do the same ninjacapping strat in Battlegrounds that got me hero.
Wow videos now are out of style anyways. It seems itâs all more about streaming. I donât have the right personality type for streams.
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I would like to see Blizz just give a main Class (Hunter, Warrior, ect. ), But give a Perks system so you could pick and chose from, to individualize a character.
Not to state an obvious, but may be an ignorant statement, Druid for example has 4 specs. The feral and bear were changed to be separate specs but came from the same talent tree. This could be implemented similarly to a Hunterâs 4th spec.
I donât believe that it would ruin the Hunter or cannibalize the class, is more actually a social aspect where other classes would want a 4th spec of some sort. Though, I canât think of a class that would really be fitting of a 4th spec.
In the fact of it, the talents/abilities similarly exist in the other specs of Hunter, but they are not the same nor do they offer the same play style or feel. The 4th spec would not be implemented difficultly. The abilities were there, and thus the animations and the casts and history to them. The difficulty would become balance, but balance is hardly an argument. Spec balance has always been an issue, and always will. There will always be a Meta, thatâs fact. Equality, actual equality would ruin an MMO and the competition in general.
A 4th spec would not damage the Hunter class but make it more playable. To say that âThey are incapable of adding anything ânewâ that doesnât cannibalize what we already have in the process,â is just argumentative with example. I would say that the current Survival has cannibalized the class (at very least the spec). But, in making a statement like that, it disregards the obvious numerous amounts of Hunterâs that love current survival.
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I donât believe any other class has had a spec so fundamentally altered as Survival.
It was done because we all know the truth. The devs do not play hunters and they didnât care that there were millions of survival hunter players that enjoyed the spec. There was just some guy who had a pet project for a melee hunter.
There was no reason to remove survival, they should have added a fourth spec. They didnât because then all the other classes would whine about not getting a 4th spec (and they care about them more than us)
They could have added a 4th spec, made survival melee akin to lore and vanilla talents, but had the 4th spec more be akin to the playstyle of old SV.
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Very true.
Though we have seen statements since where they are very hesitant towards adding 4th spec options.
To the point where many think itâs not even worth considering.
It wouldnât. Quite the opposite if you ask me.
Any attempts made towards trying to implement the old SV playstyle into an already existing spec. That would more likely cause the above.
Thereâs a reason for why they split Feral Combat into Feral(Guardian) and Feral.
Because it tried to contain two different playstyles(not just because it tried to fill two combat roles(tank + dps)), within one spec.
If you take my design suggestion for the ranged SV spec as an example.
The playstyle it would promote, would be very different from any of the existing specs the class currently has.
- It would have strong ties to the overall Class fantasy. As in, youâd still feel like a hunter when playing with it.
- It would have thematic accuracy.
- But it would NOT just be another BM spec or MM spec.
- It would carry an identity of itâs own.
- It would provide the class with additional strengths in combat that we currently do not have(ex. capability to more efficiently deal with spread cleave and/or multi-dotting). Again, in a way that fits the fantasy.
If a spec meets these criteria, I believe that itâs justified to add it to the intended class. No matter what class you talk about.
So true.
In a game like WoW. Balance(to the point of no âmetasâ). It simply cannot be achieved.
Like you said: Nor, should it be. Because it would require changes that essentially would take away much of what an MMO is meant to be.
We all have our preferences and passions.
But being against something just for the sake of it. Or just because you wouldnât like it anyway. Is IMO not a valid argument for why that something should not happen.
Among the most gifted hunters, there are those who have from birth felt a profound bond with the creatures of the wild. These beast masters are drawn to the perilous primal world, invigorated by its dangerous and untamed nature. Primitive landscape becomes home. Ferocious predator becomes kin. Whether in the thrill of the hunt or the heat of battle, beast masters call forth a litany of vicious animals to overwhelm prey and gnaw at their enemiesâ will.
Sounds like the perfect description of a melee Hunter fighting side by side in coordination with his animal companion/BFF. What got delivered though was the Dog Fight Trainer going âsic emâ and âsic em harderâ.
Moving on.
While all hunters feel a calling to the wild, some serve as a reflection of its brutality. To them, the hunt is defined by unrelenting ferocity, where survival means facing oneâs enemy eye-to-eye . . . and is always accompanied by merciless bloodshed. Weapons of great range are abandoned for instruments of close-quarters combat. Survival hunters are instinctive and crafty on the prowl, employing loyal beasts and laying deceptive traps to see their enemies undone. For these hunters know that to truly understand what it means to survive, one must first become familiar with the cruel face of death.
Survivalist doesnât really feel like a fitting theme for someone going into melee range from a traditional ranged class. Nor does merciless brutality mesh with instinctual and crafty. Which is just Legion.
BFA flipped Survival on itâs head again to feature more ranged (via gimmick abilities) while dropping most of the melee theme. It also tacked on a whole heap of Beast Masteryâs themes in addition to stealing itâs abilities.
Seems like Beast Mastery would have made a better choice for melee now doesnât it?
Marksmen, too, shroud themselves in the perils of the untamed wilds, perfecting the use of weapons that are deadliest from great range. Theyâve maintained little interest, however, in gaining the loyalty of the many beasts inhabiting these crude landscapes. Instead, the marksman blends into the surrounding environment, surveying behavior of all manner of predator and gleaning deadly methods for stalking their own prey. A sniper in hiding, the marksman unleashes arrows and bullets with deadly precision, exposing the weakness in whoeverâor whateverâpasses through their crosshairs.
Not bad for a description but a total failure in gameplay and mechanics for 2 expansions in a row after abandoning 6 expansions worth of development and iteration.
Wrath of the Lich King to Mists of Pandaria Hunters:
Beast Mastery works in tandem with his pet from range with passives and actives that reinforce the working together and mutual support theme. A larger variety of ranged, PC based attacks as well eventually including some very strong talent options. Somewhere between a 50/50 and 60/40 Pet/Player damage distribution with the PC feeling very instrumental in dealing damage. Medium speed, priority queue rotation built around planning resource consumption to maximize your burst windows.
Survival works with an animal companion from a more strategic place. The pet holds the targetâs attention while the PC uses poison, magic, and explosive damage (in addition to traps) to harass and wear down their foes. Fast paced very reactive rotation with lots of utility and control options. Resource free, instant cast L-n-L Explosive Shot procs were the absolute best iteration of âfree bonusâ proc damage because they hit hard and could be used on any target. Towards the latter expansions it also was the least âcastyâ specialization. Fastest paced, most mobile, less pet reliant but still got a lot of mileage out of the pet.
Marksmanship largely doesnât rely on the pet having very good single target burst damage. It is the slowest, least mobile, and most âcastyâ specialization. It really only gets popular when it has mobile Aimed Shots or a mechanic that generates lots of âfree and instantâ Aimed Shots. Carried the theme of a sniper very well with itâs passives creating that strong opening burst.
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Arenât most of the abilities ranged now anyway? Why not just give people a way to make raptor strike ranged too? Make it a talent or glyphâŚjust give people the option.
The problem is that you are still attacking with a polearm or some other melee weapon as opposed to a gun/bow/crossbow. That is what makes a spec melee.
That and the fact the bulk of the time you are melee range. That ability to use RS/MB at range is for uh-oh moments and the lack of Auto-Attack is hurting your DPS.
This might be an option to make the current SV spec more focused on ranged damage.
But it would by no means give us that old SV playstyle back.
If you play current MSV while you have the Aspect of the Eagle active, itâs essentially what youâre talking about here. But in a more permanent way.
Look at how the spec plays while that Aspect is active. The gameplay is nowhere near what old SV felt like. IMO ofc.
But also to a large degree purely based on an objective view as well.
Here, Naham/Whim has a good point when he talks about the mechanical aspects of a specs design. And how it also connects with the intended fantasy behind it.
There is nothing you could do to the current MSV that would make it feel like you were playing the past ranged version. Aside from switching out a lot of abilities and passive effects ofc.
But that would just turn the spec into RSV instead of MSV. And it would no longer be similar to what the current MSV feels like.
If equipping a bow turned Raptor Strike into Quick Shot (or whatever) and let a bow do full damage with auto attack Iâd play SV. (Because people were equipping bows and having fun with it, they reduced bow auto attack damage by half for SV). Iâd prefer if most of their other ranged abilities used the bow animation as well, but it wouldnât really be difficult.
Unfortunately there are several problems with such an idea, but they could be fixed.
Iâd rather a 4th spec though. One dedicated to the task. The name Dark Ranger sounds pretty awesome and old SV playstyle could easily fit under such a moniker. Some of the elements might need to be changed for aesthetics, e.g.: Explosive Shot to Nether Shot, Serpent Sting to Exsanguination, Black Arrow to Black Arrow (I guess that one works), etc. Give it all the same stuff that made SV great: LnL procs from Black Arrow/Traps, good dot damage, some bonuses to Traps, etc.
Lone Wolf would also fit here (leaving SV and BM as the primary pet specs) though just like for MM, LW should be implemented with at least an honest attempt at damage and utility parity for CHOICE in playstyle. Such an implementation for LW doesnât have to be perfect. Within a couple percent is just fine. Its pretty much there right now for damage, but seriously lacking in the utility department. But I digressâŚ
Dark Ranger should also have stealth of course, but ALL hunters should have stealth. In truth all hunters DO have stealth, but I mean baseline stealth without the artificial barriers and unnecessary additions.
Yes, I think Hunters deserve a 4th spec. Blizzard chose to implement a melee spec. They NEVER should have removed a favored class to do so. It was utterly idiotic. They need to take their head out of their a⌠poorly designed class balance equations and design with a little bit of heart.
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Sort of agree with you here Mas^^
The Dark Ranger theme could possibly work if you changed the animations and design of several abilities. But depending on who you ask, this would be the wrong thing to do.
Same as before, we have our preferences.
I only want MM to be the spec that opts into the lone ranger style. IMO only MM should be the spec that does not promote the use of pets in any way.
I donât want RSV to have things for pets baseline(like current MSV has). They should be entirely optional.
IMO, Camouflage should not give stealth, at least not baseline.
Camouflage is about the illusion of stealth(invisibility). Again, just a personal opinion.
Ofc actual stealth adds more of an advantage overall.
Agreed.
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Lol âsurvival means facing oneâs enemy eye-to-eye . . . and is always accompanied by merciless bloodshed. Weapons of great range are abandoned for instruments of close-quarters combat.â They get in the face of battle not fearful of combat⌠âemploying loyal beasts and laying deceptive traps to see their enemies undone.â Well the face of battle hidden behind traps and weakening the opponent before they actually get in thereâŚ
At first itâs like they are warrior, then they are cowering behind traps and a pet. Then letâs go in.
I understand the vision the devs had when making this spec how it is. But, Survival is not what it once was. And, a hunter is not a fitting class to go head first. Eye-to-eye Terrain survivalist should be more like eye-to-unseen eyes. Terrain fighter is the survivalist the hunter at the core, hunting using traps and terrain to make the foe disarray and confused to where the attack is till itâs to late.
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People will hate this, a little weeaboo Iâm not trying to get a furry or anything, this is strictly to exemplify the vision of a melee BM Hunter but, a while back there was this show Naruto. Beast Mastery to me, would play out like Kiba and Akamaru. Okay get the comments out, just the idea premise of how I picture Beast Mastery.
Iâm a survivor, Iâm not gonâ a give up, I will survive, keep on surviving!
Best spec ever.
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First time I watched this, I couldnât help but be saddened that they took away the play style that it most clearly resembled in order to make Furry Unholy/Arms with a pet.
People over on General Discussion, Reddit, and other sites keep bringing up the âClass Skinâ concept as an alternative to new classes via customizing your characterâs spell effects.
Sylvanas uses necromancy which includes the Black Arrow DoT ability and that arrow to the siege engine certainly feels like old school Explosive Shot.
Alleria uses void energy which could also work with Black Arrow and Explosive Shot.
Vereesa is still the standard elven ranger using Nature/Holy magic which would be a âbrightâ version of Black Arrow but would still work with Explosive Shot.
A specialization with 3 archetypal Lore characters to reference from which also holds true to the core aspects of the Class: ranged with a pet, tracking, and traps.
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<3
We all have our preferences 
Have noticed. Though this is not something that Iâm after. OR I should say, it depends on how it would work.
I want the old ranged SV spec as similar to the past core as it can be. Just with a design intended for the modern game. And current philosophies.
A Dark Ranger style spec would to me, not feel like old SV.
Sorry, but, I kind of disagree on this.
I know that the ability in the past dealt Shadow Damage.
But, before the Legion iteration when they gave it that awful scourge boar guardian spawn, it was never intended to involve any form of necromancy.
It did Shadow damage, but I imagine that was mostly because they did not have a good alternative that fit to make it distinct from other abilities.
I always imagined that Black Arrow, was you, applying a toxin/poison of your own making, to your bullets/arrows.
A toxin that would further increase the strength/potency of your other attacks.
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#cIf you check the original design of Black Arrow, it had nothing to do with necromancy. It was intended as a damage amp(to your other abilities/attacks).
The design changes they gave the ability in Legion, I donât know where they got those from. Summoning a Scourge boar? As a hunter?
I think they mostly wanted to give MM a way to aid them in solo content without forcing MMs to use a permanent pet for tanking.
Sort of, yes.
But I would say that it feels closer to the current design of Explosive Shot that we can find in the MM talents.
Sort of yes.
But those class skins would not actually give the old SV spec back as it felt(visually) and worked in the past.
In Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, Black Arrow is an ability used by the Dark Ranger hero unit. The WC3 version of the spell increases the damage of the Dark Rangerâs attacks, and enemies killed while the effect is active will be raised as skeletal minions.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Black_Arrow