BfA Feral Feedback (cont'd)


(Josefine) #784
09/23/2018 09:15 PMPosted by Lolaan
Yeah, though RtB is much harder to really compare to, which is why I used SnD. While it's true that SnD's direct Energy Regen bonus is relatively new, Combat Potency turned that attack speed gain into Energy Regen indirectly. Savage Roar's damage bonus didn't.

Also, Sub had Energetic Recovery for a while before losing SnD.

(Brún) #785
09/24/2018 05:19 AMPosted by Brokenclaws
Anyone on the PTR able to tell me if the mastery bonus to finishers effects Savage Roar?


I’m not sure how that would work though it would be a very interesting interaction.

(Brokenclaws) #786
I think it specifies damage. Which would not improve its effect. I re-read it this afternoon. Doubtful that it would improve its effect with its current wording.

(Kettilbjorn) #787
Too little too late.

Feral sucked hard, especially for mythic + in legion too, and the eventual buffs into at least mediocrity, weren't enough to overcome this stigma in LFG for months.

At some point, you have to leave a relationship where you routinely get treated like crap.

Feral ...out.

(Kaelron) #788
I see a lot of promise in the proposed Feral changes coming up on the 8.1 PTR, especially the changes to Savage Roar that increase energy regeneration.

However, I think it might almost be more worthwhile and elegant to roll that 10% increased energy regeneration into Predatory Swiftness. That while you have the Predatory Swiftness buff up after a finisher, your energy is recharging more rapidly when you need it most. What's more, I think this would synergize well with Blood Talons

(Rhahen) #789
That would be a horrible change that makes you want to never utilize your utility for dps. That would be MILES worse than what Bloodtalons does right now.

(Sunoco) #790
Remove Corruption, our defensive despell, is still pulling us out of cat form in 8.1
This makes 0 sense seeing as Soothe, our offensive despell, does NOT pull us out of cat form.

It does not function this way for boomkins and it should not function this way for cat form (I am not positive of bear for)

It makes despelling defensively feel horrendous. In my M+ if I am with a balance druid I flat out ask if they can be the lead on despells since I lose a lot of DPS and fluidity if I were to do it (I obviously still do it if multiple people get cursed/poisoned or if theirs is on CD)... But I shouldn't have to avoid my utility purely because someone else does it better.

I will prob make a separate post about this because it may get lost in the overall discussion of feral but please don't ignore this... Or at least explain why a defensive despell should pull us out of cat while an offensive one shouldn't.

(Kaelron) #791
09/25/2018 12:16 PMPosted by Rhahen
That would be a horrible change that makes you want to never utilize your utility for dps. That would be MILES worse than what Bloodscent does right now.


Well, I mean, as long as Bloodtalons is on the talent tree, the cat's kinda already out of the bag on using utility for DPS with Feral. And the way I see it, it'd introduce some interesting choice into the rotation. Do you hang onto the buff for a few more seconds for the energy regen or throw out a heal on an ally / root an incoming mob? Idk, seems more interesting to me than the "Press this button every so often to do more damage" gameplay that is Savage Roar. Plus, given how frequent the Predatory Swiftness buff is up, I don't think anyone would really be losing sleep over using it vs. sitting on the buff, but that's just my take on it

(Dmxdruid) #792
So here we go again blizzard once again can't fix one part of anything without totally screwing up another. Seriously Is there any real reason for the pvp nerfs? By all means please explain that one to me. 30% Healing nerf would be fine if we had the defensives to make this seem too strong but oh thats right we dont.

50% nerf to Rake Ferocity. Ok great if we had ONE other viable build which we dont since you wont buff our bleeds to the point it does any real damage. Even with your previous buffs they still dont do crap GG by all means explain that one. Since a rework after buffing shows you still dont know what your doing.

I have said before they only shift things around with feral druid they wont actually fix anything. I can dismantle anyone that can claim the opposite with sheer facts. Spacegoats, Spiritcrabs, any color of texts cant defend these changes and in fact will get torched for trying. Hence I know they will stay quiet on this issue as they have been for EXPANSIONS now.

gg play feral for fun but don't expect to see the end of anything without a pity spot.

(Butterbao) #793
09/25/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Kaelron
Plus, given how frequent the Predatory Swiftness buff is up, I don't think anyone would really be losing sleep over using it vs. sitting on the buff, but that's just my take on it
Actually, i lost tons of sleep over how short the duration of Predatory Swiftness buff. It would be a great improvement if the duration gets a slight bump to 15 seconds.

Though what i truly wish is to have Ailuro Pouncers's effect being a talent of sort.

If they are not doing a massive rework on how Bloodtalon functions, which is understandable since the community has long adjusted to how BT works - Ailuro Pouncers's effect would be a clever and functional improvement on the BT gameplay.

Question for the community: Should The Wildshaper's Clutch effect (Critical damage from your Bleeds have a 30% chance to trigger Primal Fury) be baked baseline as bleeds are becoming more and more important? Or are you fine with how Primal Fury function as it is?

(Plzpizza) #794
I’m so sick and tired about feral. I tried but seeing my numbers be that low while
putting in the work to acheieve being in the bottom row. I’m 353 ilv as feral
I’m still missing alot of items but seeing DH im just sad.

It doesnt help that I am awarded random loot that doesnt help me each week
its just a slow build up of sadness and anger. End of the day im just gonna reroll
as a DH.

(Wraithe) #795
Raiding last night, I was feeling okay. But I don't really look at numbers till after raid is over, since I have more important things to concentrate on during the raid itself. But after... I am top iLevel in my guild. I beat 1 other dps in my guild 6th out of 7. As the top iLevel in the guild. Feels trash man.

But it goes on. I evaluated my usefulness for the raid. What was I asked to do as Feral... Well, the Bear was asked to roar at one point...... The Boom got called on for Solar Beam quite a few times, plus Innervate............. Battle Res was requested, but from the Restos........................ I WAS asked to swap to Bear so the BM Monk could go WW. I refused. I've made my statement clear that if the Raid Lead feels I need to sit then I would, but I'm playing Feral in raids. But that wasn't something I was asked to do as Feral....................................... I volunteered to be one of the ones soaking close to Vectis, but anyone who isn't an idiot and can dodge bad things can do that. Still not a Feral thing...................................................................... So, nope, nothing for Feral utility there. In short, as a player I did my part. As Feral, I brought nothing. Not only that, but you could argue that all the gear on my toon as top iLevel is pretty much going to waste. Granted I wasn't total trash dps. I did beat the tanks and managed to place middle bottom to middle total in dps on the kills. But the one thing I got asked to do as Feral was to not be a Feral.

Did I really bring anything to the raid as Feral? No. Our comp last night was strange (no Rogues, no DHs, 1 BM Hunter, 1 Monk) in that we were actually digging into the spellbook to figure out who had CCs for the large adds on Zek'Voz. Turns out that there's quite a few specs that can do that (we used Paladin's Repentance), but not any Druid spec, including Feral. So the Bear had Roar covered, Restos had the BRes, Boomy had Innervate and Solar Beam and could AE pretty well. Feral was a morale booster? Looks cute/fierce and is the spec you can beat most of the time if you play well?

As a side note, folks in the guild got really excited when they saw I had leveled up a BM Hunter alt. Until I told them straight up that he would never be main raiding with them. I main raid Feral and if I can't do that, then I won't be raiding I guess.

2nd note, that BM Hunter alt was 340 (348 now) and pulled almost 15k ST on a Patchwerk style boss in a Mythic dungeon. Difference of 26 iLevels and getting numbers I can't even touch on my Feral.

(Lolaan) #796
09/26/2018 06:51 AMPosted by Wraithe
Raiding last night, I was feeling okay. But I don't really look at numbers till after raid is over, since I have more important things to concentrate on during the raid itself. But after... I am top iLevel in my guild. I beat 1 other dps in my guild 6th out of 7. As the top iLevel in the guild. Feels trash man.

But it goes on. I evaluated my usefulness for the raid. What was I asked to do as Feral... Well, the Bear was asked to roar at one point...... The Boom got called on for Solar Beam quite a few times, plus Innervate............. Battle Res was requested, but from the Restos........................ I WAS asked to swap to Bear so the BM Monk could go WW. I refused. I've made my statement clear that if the Raid Lead feels I need to sit then I would, but I'm playing Feral in raids. But that wasn't something I was asked to do as Feral....................................... I volunteered to be one of the ones soaking close to Vectis, but anyone who isn't an idiot and can dodge bad things can do that. Still not a Feral thing...................................................................... So, nope, nothing for Feral utility there. In short, as a player I did my part. As Feral, I brought nothing. Not only that, but you could argue that all the gear on my toon as top iLevel is pretty much going to waste. Granted I wasn't total trash dps. I did beat the tanks and managed to place middle bottom to middle total in dps on the kills. But the one thing I got asked to do as Feral was to not be a Feral.

Did I really bring anything to the raid as Feral? No. Our comp last night was strange (no Rogues, no DHs, 1 BM Hunter, 1 Monk) in that we were actually digging into the spellbook to figure out who had CCs for the large adds on Zek'Voz. Turns out that there's quite a few specs that can do that (we used Paladin's Repentance), but not any Druid spec, including Feral. So the Bear had Roar covered, Restos had the BRes, Boomy had Innervate and Solar Beam and could AE pretty well. Feral was a morale booster? Looks cute/fierce and is the spec you can beat most of the time if you play well?

As a side note, folks in the guild got really excited when they saw I had leveled up a BM Hunter alt. Until I told them straight up that he would never be main raiding with them. I main raid Feral and if I can't do that, then I won't be raiding I guess.

2nd note, that BM Hunter alt was 340 (348 now) and pulled almost 15k ST on a Patchwerk style boss in a Mythic dungeon. Difference of 26 iLevels and getting numbers I can't even touch on my Feral.


Excellent post. It just shows that in the "strengths and weaknesses" expansion, none of feral's utility strengths can't be done (usually significantly) better by someone else.

Stampeding Roar? Bears and any shaman can do it and the shaman one is persistent (i.e. doesn't have to be timed perfectly)

Maim? At 5 seconds it's outclassed by many other stuns and requires combo points to use which further reduces our damage. Not to mention Rogues is 1-2 seconds longer and can be talented for +10% group/raid wide damage increase.

CC talent row? Other druids have it while also bringing other, arguably stronger utility in addition (Solar Beam, Innervate, Ursol's Vortex)

Affinity row? None of the abilities are strong enough to really make a difference because they're missing the talents/masteries of specs the affinities are based on. Ironically, Feral Affinity for Resto is strong making "catweaving" a thing.

Baseline movement speed is arguably the one thing that stands out (to me) when you think Feral, but it's virtually a useless strength. Almost anytime there's a mechanic that requires running something a distance (G'huun), instant movement is far preferable to base movement speed. LIkewise the orb running in the dungeon (I forget) is best done by instant movement speed or a DK which can limit the 80% snare through their passive Death's Advance. There's just nowhere it's useful.

If we don't bring (good) utility, then we have to bring damage (and realistically, top tier damage). Which we're obviously not right now.

(Martei) #797
Our DPS is also still garbage did heroic last night and the other feral parsed somewhere in the 90 percentile and his dge was below a rogue and the rogue parsed in the high 60's. Not sure how they see feral as fine when the 90 parse is still like the 10th DPS down on the list

(Multke) #798
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19/#sample=1&difficulty=4&dataset=100&itemlevel=360-380

look we are still bottom of the barrel

(Martei) #799
[quote="207681377692"]Raiding last night, I was feeling okay. But I don't really look at numbers till after raid is over, since I have more important things to concentrate on during the raid itself. But after... I am top iLevel in my guild. I beat 1 other dps in my guild 6th out of 7. As the top iLevel in the guild. Feels trash man.

But it goes on. I evaluated my usefulness for the raid. What was I asked to do as Feral... Well, the Bear was asked to roar at one point...... The Boom got called on for Solar Beam quite a few times, plus Innervate............. Battle Res was requested, but from the Restos........................ I WAS asked to swap to Bear so the BM Monk could go WW. I refused. I've made my statement clear that if the Raid Lead feels I need to sit then I would, but I'm playing Feral in raids. But that wasn't something I was asked to do as Feral....................................... I volunteered to be one of the ones soaking close to Vectis, but anyone who isn't an idiot and can dodge bad things can do that. Still not a Feral thing...................................................................... So, nope, nothing for Feral utility there. In short, as a player I did my part. As Feral, I brought nothing. Not only that, but you could argue that all the gear on my toon as top iLevel is pretty much going to waste. Granted I wasn't total trash dps. I did beat the tanks and managed to place middle bottom to middle total in dps on the kills. But the one thing I got asked to do as Feral was to not be a Feral.

Did I really bring anything to the raid as Feral? No. Our comp last night was strange (no Rogues, no DHs, 1 BM Hunter, 1 Monk) in that we were actually digging into the spellbook to figure out who had CCs for the large adds on Zek'Voz. Turns out that there's quite a few specs that can do that (we used Paladin's Repentance), but not any Druid spec, including Feral. So the Bear had Roar covered, Restos had the BRes, Boomy had Innervate and Solar Beam and could AE pretty well. Feral was a morale booster? Looks cute/fierce and is the spec you can beat most of the time if you play well?

As a side note, folks in the guild got really excited when they saw I had leveled up a BM Hunter alt. Until I told them straight up that he would never be main raiding with them. I main raid Feral and if I can't do that, then I won't be raiding I guess.

2nd note, that BM Hunter alt was 340 (348 now) and pulled almost 15k ST on a Patchwerk style boss in a Mythic dungeon. Difference of 26 iLevels and getting numbers I can't even touch on my Feral.


I 100% agree with this blizzard always looks at what the class brings but i feel like they should also take a look at what specs bring. I always compare to rogues cause rogues are always wanted somehow they never seem to have the issues that other classes always have to deal with. Rogues will say they bring no buffs which they don't but its the utility they bring cloak and cheat death can be used to cheese mechanics plus misdirect is also useful. This is why i kind of wanted the buff that wars can bring (battle shout) given to feral. Blizzard gave battle rez to a bunch of classes cause it was considered a needed thing thus taking away from druids in the process to the point where you almost always have a brez now how about these buff not get so limited my guild only has 2 wars currently and they often miss raids.

Also shamans ghost wolf is more mobile in the fact that snares don't work at all on it

(Lolaan) #800
Yeah, personally I wish they'd tie the spec specific utilities to their affinities (I'm sure it's been mentioned before but it's worth mentioning again). That way the affinity row actually becomes an interesting choice.

Balance Affinity - Solar Beam
Feral Affinity - Stampeding Roar
Restoration Affinity - Innervate
Guardian Affinity - Ursol's Vortex (yea, this is currently Resto's but cmon, "Ursol" is a bear druid; also solves the problem of "no guardian snare" without just giving them the Thrash snare back)

Boom, flexibility. You get your spec's utility, plus your choice of one of the other spec's utilities.

(Buttscratch) #801
I advocated for a overhaul in Feral Druid design because the rotation and mechanics seem to be lacking when it comes to performance. They very much used the same design from Legion expansion which made it difficult for some players to play that class. Feral druid did fine in PVP but in some cases did okay in PVE but still had problems lacking DPS.

Some players did alright but others like myself were struggling. I do the rotations, I try to find the best gear that I can muster, Its still a struggle because the lack of performance efforts to try to figure out.

(Etalla) #802
Like every other melee class in the game and their - "I hit a button and now can AoE" - I'd like to see swipe, thrash, and brutal slash be removed from the game entirely.

Instead, remake thrash so the ability stacks 3 times with a recharge (similar to brutal slash). This new thrash would apply an AoE bleed (rake) AND ALLOW ALL OF OUR ABILITIES TO CLEAVE at 80% damage (to include FB etc).

This is EXACTLY how almost every damn melee class in the game plays atm. They all have a button that allows all of their abilities to cleave. Let us decide if its worth using our combo points to AoE instant damage on things that will die in 10 seconds (rip is and will always be useless for adds/trash that die well within 30 seconds) or apply a rip on things that we are cleaving.

(Wraithe) #803
The new Primal Wrath is just fine for an AE talent. 12 second rip on everything in 10 yards. That suites me. Is it instant? No, but it's damned fast AND it's better than anything we've had in the past. Plus, adjusting the the whole talent row to be AE only frees us up from having to choose between doing ST or AE on a run.

My main beef now is that we don't have a utility niche to call our own. Or even a small one to share with someone else. What we can do is WELL covered by such a diverse (part of the problem with being Druids) spec band that our usefulness outside of dmg is pared down. So, while I really really REALLY appreciate the rework we'll be receiving... We need SOMETHING to call our own. Just letting us do more dmg and do it more efficiently helps. But it isn't why a spec gets a group in M+ or is needed for a certain fight in a Raid.