BfA Feral Feedback (cont'd)


(Liger) #664
Today I caught myself spamming swipe and didn't want to bite b/c the mobs were dying too fast. I really wish I had an AoE finisher move. ;)

(Martei) #665
Currently in a raid damage is higher but we are still crap to rogues it may be time to just give up and i've been playing this feral for a long time now. So tired of having to go up against rogues who never seem to deal with this and feral always does. Yes i am comparing to rogues cause they are virtually the direct competition for raid spots

At this rate by the time they actually fix feral the attitude that ferals is horrible will be so ingrained in people that they will not accept feral even after its fixed.

(Benjinx) #666
Time to wait another 2-4 weeks for another half baked "buff". Pretty sad when I'm sitting on a 340 ilvl and have no shot at normal mythics let alone raiding outside of a guild who feels bad or hopes we'll be better at some point.

Solid month since release come Friday and we're still dealing with issues people called out back in beta.

(Shinrael) #667
09/11/2018 12:41 PMPosted by Rayen
The 5% isn't even close to being acceptable. We bring nothing but ST dps to any encounter (Raid, M+-etc) and should be tuned for such. All druids can soothe, etc- it's not unique utility to us.

8.1 does nothing if the game is basically unplayable for us now. Mythic + is out, we're barely making into a raid group-if at all.

This is not acceptable. No spec should feel unwelcome in basic gameplay.


The WORST part is I'm parsing ORANGE and on any fight that isn't just PURE SINGLE TARGET I'll be with people that are parsing 80-90.

The only fight I even stand a chance in is Fetid. Otherwise my cleave is so far behind there's no point in bringing me.

(Massiveatack) #668
Check this out, Feral's M+ combat analysis from warcraftslogs after 9/11:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/20#metric=playerscore&class=DPS&sample=1&dataset=50

Comment: Speechless.

(Brokenclaws) #669
Fire, Feral, Demo, Marksman are 65 or under overall parses. Survial is under 100....

Either no one is playing/submitting parses or its just not being brought.

(Revvi) #670
09/12/2018 08:13 AMPosted by Brokenclaws
Fire, Feral, Demo, Marksman are 65 or under overall parses. Survial is under 100....

Either no one is playing/submitting parses or its just not being brought.


Or, as I know from personal experience, they are being excluded because of the state they are in....

(Ghrell) #671
09/12/2018 08:02 AMPosted by Massiveatack
Check this out, Feral's M+ combat analysis from warcraftslogs after 9/11:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/20#metric=playerscore&class=DPS&sample=1&dataset=50

Comment: Speechless.


What are you talking about? We're second best, right behind Fire Mages!
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/20#metric=playerscore&class=DPS&bracket=10&dataset=10

(Jarga) #672
Blizz, I think feral needs some design retuning. Something that doesn't put them in a laughable state.

I'm sure the design team is knocking around ideas, and I'm sure there'd be a LOT of reworking necessary for this, but here's some suggestions. I doubt it would be taken into consideration, but hey, that's what this thread is for.

- Increase dmg of shreds/swipes/FBs (non-bleed moves) based on x current bleeds on target. Putting importance on setting-up bleeds makes a player happy to know they're doing something right.

- Make thrash a stacking bleed, up to x3. (Like Guardian). This should make up for underwhelming AoE. That, OR make swipe/brutal slash add and extra x% of seconds on existing bleeds.

- Reward players for setting up bleeds. Either reduce energy cost by x% per each bleed. This should put them on par with the speed it normally takes melee dps to do decent set-up for it rotation.

- Talent: Soul of the Forest rewards 30 energy with a 5x combo finishing move and 5% increased damage. That's one extra attack before feeling the energy drainage, even if you're going through your rotation with the utmost precision. Either swap this talent with any of the above mentioned suggestions to make bleeds more interactive to the play-style, rather than reactive to it.

- Talent: Moment of clarity is a bandaid talent designed with an awareness of the incredibly sad energy downtime in feral rotations. That energy downtime shouldn't be an issue unless players are spamming attacks outside of its regular combo-building/spending rotation. Right now, players select this talent just so they aren't sitting back and waiting for their energy bar to slowly rise, even maintaining a normal rotation.

- Talent: Feral Frenzy, given Feral's pvp nerfs, this talent is now sitting on the 'looks pretty' but exists like an add-on taped to the feral utility that only costs energy with a very short bleed. Why not switch it with something that refreshes bleed times on existing bleeds or something like that. Will work as a ad-hoc fix if players happen to mess up their rotations due to following boss mechanics in raids or mythics.

- Talent: Lunar Inspiration. Can we... Not cast moonfire as a part of a feral dps rotation? Please? I know it's one of our very few OPTIONAL ranged attacks. Why not replace it with something like 'shadow claw' where it swaps rake into a 20-25 yard ranged attack. ( I know, that would make rake's stealth stun effect a little OP, but right now, Feral's Mythic+ utility is also a little(lot) lack luster anyway.)

(Nuadorin) #673
09/12/2018 09:28 AMPosted by Jarga
Talent: Lunar Inspiration. Can we... Not cast moonfire as a part of a feral dps rotation? Please? I know it's one of our very few OPTIONAL ranged attacks. Why not replace it with something like 'shadow claw' where it swaps rake into a 20-25 yard ranged attack. ( I know, that would make rake's stealth stun effect a little OP, but right now, Feral's Mythic+ utility is also a little(lot) lack luster anyway.)

While I like Lunar inspiration It could be reworked to give X amount of energy back per tick of dam. so you have another option.

(Darkestalker) #674
Would not mind having mangle back as a bleed enhancer. Maybe a talent or base passive that enhances shred and FB ×% based on # of bleeds. They definitely need to just tune the base damage of abilities up overall a bit more as well.

(Ancihcaor) #675
09/12/2018 09:28 AMPosted by Jarga
- Increase dmg of shreds/swipes/FBs (non-bleed moves) based on x current bleeds on target. Putting importance on setting-up bleeds makes a player happy to know they're doing something right.


Simply change our Mastery to:
"Your damage is increased by 30% for each of your Bleed effects on the target"

Basically a Bleed damage version of Harmony" (Resto Mastery).

(Birdmallard) #676
I went into Premade Groups today, looked for 35 M+2's with 351 Item LVL and no one would take me because I'm feral.

If I go guardian or resto, instant invite. But feral is abysmal and everyone knows it.

(Martei) #677
09/12/2018 07:01 PMPosted by Birdmallard
I went into Premade Groups today, looked for 35 M+2's with 351 Item LVL and no one would take me because I'm feral.

If I go guardian or resto, instant invite. But feral is abysmal and everyone knows it.


and the longer they leave it this way the more ingrained it will be that feral is bad. So it will continue to be hard or feral will just disappear since nobody will actually get to do the content.

(Caelwn) #678
09/12/2018 07:43 PMPosted by Martei
09/12/2018 07:01 PMPosted by Birdmallard
I went into Premade Groups today, looked for 35 M+2's with 351 Item LVL and no one would take me because I'm feral.

If I go guardian or resto, instant invite. But feral is abysmal and everyone knows it.


and the longer they leave it this way the more ingrained it will be that feral is bad. So it will continue to be hard or feral will just disappear since nobody will actually get to do the content.


This has been my concern as well. I spent half an hour last night sitting in Boralus applying to as many Mythic 0 groups as I could (not just ones with only 1 slot open) to try and get the weekly done and got nothing.

I don't demand that people play with me, I get why they wouldn't want to invite and you can't blame them for wanting to enjoy their time too, but at some point you just stop and look at the time you've spent doing nothing and wonder if it's worth trying.

I'll try starting a group and see how that goes, failing that I'll consider re-rolling, but it'd be a real shame to have to abandon my first character due to poor balance and communication.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if we scale better at higher gear levels if we are going to find it so hard to get that gear in the first place.

(Hydroxine) #679
Wow, over 2k posts combined with the other thread and crappy 5% tuning to feral and other classes, these are some dookie devs. Fire mages are also a meme right now, along with a bunch of other classes...

So many people have left, and once the novelty of the "brand new super fun" expac wares off I feel people are gonna leave in troves.

Anybody else feel like they are playing a damn beta? I don't think ill ever pay real money for game time anymore. Or.. play at all.. games a joke.

Im pretty convinced the balance team is either 2 people, a bunch of clueless fresh grads, or blizzard is just milking this game for every penny at this point... I mean think about how much money they have, and they cant get their game to a respectable state...

Like people wake up, were legit playing an unfinished game. and PAYING for it.

(Fahrenheit) #680
Still way undertuned in terms of overall PvE.

The combination of having trash tier AoE, little utility, and being melee means we have some serious community stigma built up against us. This already prohibits our prospects in Mythic+, and it gets worse with each passing week. And I suspect we're going to see this bleed over into PuG raids as well. I mean, why bring Feral over any other leather wearing DPS? All three Rogue specs are better at ST/AoE, as is Havoc and WW. Feral can maybe beat Balance in ST damage, but are trounced in AoE/utility departments by their fellow Druids.

Our ST damage is respectable at the moment, at least compared to the travesty that is our AoE. But the thing is, we shouldn't be respectable at ST. We should consistently be in the running for top tier ST, that's supposedly our 'niche'. If we're going to be purposely neutered in AoE and utility, we need something to bring to the table.

As of now we bring nothing, and the community knows this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9ff226/how_it_feels_pugging_m_as_feral_after_the_buffs/

(Nazzarein) #681
blizzard dosnt care if we enjoy the game, as long as we bought the expansion their job is done.

(Martei) #682
Starting to think maybe it's a critical thing fire mages rely on crit as well and there at the bottom. Feral likes crit not only for damage but for that extra combo point which gives more energy and would also explain why feral is strong near end of expansions

(Kaelron) #683
09/13/2018 11:40 AMPosted by Martei
Starting to think maybe it's a critical thing fire mages rely on crit as well and there at the bottom. Feral likes crit not only for damage but for that extra combo point which gives more energy and would also explain why feral is strong near end of expansions


I think that's the crux of a lot of endemic issues with the Feral Specialization. With fire mage, at the very least they have tools in their toolkit to guarantee crits and fuel that gameplay loop of Heating Up > HotStreak > PyroBlast/Flamestrike > etc... It may not feel too great number-wise right now, but at least it fully realized and enjoyable.

With Feral, the flow of gameplay is almost entirely propped up by gear, and as I've said before in this and other threads, that's a failure of design. Regardless of numbers, a well-designed specialization should be able to strip off all its gear (save for a weapon) and still have fun gameplay. There are a lot of classes and specializations that pass that test these days, but Feral is so far not just failing, it's falling flat on its face.