There are too many mechanics that are make-or-break in non-high key Shadowlands Dungeons
In BFA mechanics became more important the higher the key got to a much greater degree.
IMO in lower keys people should be able to tunnel things and have it not wipe the dungeon. This is because I believe casual players should be able to log in and just have fun with friends. Most people don’t want to worry about kick rotations etc – leave that to the higher keys
BfA had a lot of great things. It also had a bunch of bad things.
I think they could’ve scrapped expeditions, scrapped warfronts and put that effort towards player housing.
What’s an example of a design change you don’t like that is in a SL or BFA dungeon as opposed to a Legion dungeon?
Playing all 3, the only real difference I’ve noticed is the lack of unavoidable 1 shots (like shade in DHT) Legion had that BFA and SL don’t. Is that it?
Other than that I feel you could slap a Shadowlands theme on any of the Legion dungeons and they would fit right in.
Idk about best (hard to pick an xpack for that tbh), but yeah, the dungeons in BfA were all solid. People whine about Told Dagor and Waycrest but that’s just because affixes like Sanguine and people being awful with their cameras. They played fine and any issues were with the M+ system, not the dungeons.
You could literally pull mobs consistently through walls and ceilings in Tol Dogar all expansion long.
The last boss could be pulled halfway though the dungeon randomly.
That isn’t “whining” it was Blizzard never being able to debug that dungeon the entire expansion.
okay, so what’s the cutoff point? at what key level should it no longer be possible to fail every single mechanic every time and not wipe? +5? +12?
In BFA dungeons how I saw it was there were a few core mechanics in each dungeon that needed to be followed at near every level. Then there were some that could be ignored up until a 15 or so, then some that could be ignored up to a 20, then as keys got higher there were a few more at around 24-27
That was good.
In Shadowlands missing a single kick can wipe the whole group in any level in multiple dungeons unless people outgear the content. That’s just cruel to casuals, IMO
Also I’m not a casual. Currently working on getting all 22’s timed and maybe a couple 23’s before next season. Highest timed ever is a 24
Lol I don’t listen to In game music I have YouTube going and auto pilot through m+
Legion & WoD instances were the best. I LOVE Grimrail depot, and Iron docks as much as Court of stars.
ok for the most part I’m getting that many other players also enjoyed bfa dungeons. Shadowlands just doesn’t have the fun factor. Bfa dungeons had great sound effects great themes ect… Like they were designed to be fun not work. Hopefully blizz folks see that and give us some cool new ones in next expansion.
It was buggy but you just had to work around it… i didnt really had that much trouble with it as much as you described
BFA had awesome dungeons. Except Tol Dagor. It was so buggy.
Kings rest was a love hate for me. It was a dead key early on, then they nerfed it to a reasonable level and it was a fun one.
They can though… you can outright ignore just about everything in a 5 key and still time it. I’d say it’s more like being under geared in a 7 key that you actually need to kick the really important abilities.
I think the disconnect here is that lower keys are more a check of “can you actually play your character to some extent”. You don’t need kick rotations in anything really unless you’re pushing well passed KSM.
Waycrest Manor is the single best dungeon ever created. Everything except Underrot was awesome for dungeons in BFA.
It’s a shame SL dungeons suck so bad.
I really wish I was able to explain it. I’ve always be terrible at finding the words or expressing myself well.
All I can say is, the past 2 expansions I’ve not enjoyed the dungeons as much and the only commonality I can find is that they were designed with M+ in mind.
This could be entirely a coincidence though. Only time and 10.0 will tell for me.
I think this sums up one of the primary problems with Shadowlands in general
There are some mechanics that are simply must-dos even in lower keys. Rebellious Fist from the goliaths in SOA comes to mind. That will pretty-much wipe a group if missed at near any key level that isn’t overgeared. IMO leave that kind of stuff to keys above 15
Work around, like as in just not cast my abilities? Seems like a good reason to not like the dungeon.
Freehold and Motherlode were favorites of mine. I like those fun comedy dungeons lol.
Well yeah except for freehold. It also had one of the best raids ever put into the game, Battle of Dazar’alor. I absolutely LOVE that raid.