It’s also an issue of reward scaling. It used to be that you needed to be a tier lower to be geared to do content and once you were the same item level as the content it became easy and if you were over geared it was a joke. This gave you a sense of progression. But the difficulty of what gear drops for what is required doesn’t match up. Ghuun should be a joke for a raid full of 370 people especially at the first tier and he’s not. Mythic +10 should be easy in 370 gear and it’s not (especially depending on what dungeon you get with what week you’re on).
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Also what happened to end bosses dropping a tier higher because of higher difficulty? Why even bother with heroic ghuun when early mythic bosses are easier
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I think you feel it the most in outdoor content. The scaling is definitely overtuned and likely shouldn’t exist in the first place if the devs want WoW to survive.
But I also quickly grew bored with the instance content because the rewards just feel more incremental this expansion. That might be because Legion had a more generous WQ ilvl and the catchup gear had a progression that made sense (none of that waiting until Warfronts to open in the month and then spamming for gear).
It just feels overall like the devs weren’t really considering the impact of their design choices. And that really goes for every single thing that exists currently in BFA, not just gear progression. I just don’t think they have a clue how to design an MMO right now.
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its a good theory, however its not very accurate, its hard for people to know definately what burns them out till they have spent time away from it and then realize what it was that made them feel the way they felt. Some people its just not entertaining, others it feels like they lack purpose. etc.
Sup with the click bait title? Feels like a youtube video.
I agree. For years I logged in and did a variety of things in this game and always felt like I was making progress that mattered with my character. Then, in WoD, there was a drop-off in variety of ways to progress. In Legion it was a bit worse, thanks to most professions. And then BfA is just…unrewarding all the time.
I am honestly baffled by how a company that got progression so right for a decade could screw things up this badly. It feels like some stingy Scrooge took over the game and doesn’t want players to feel too good. “Don’t let them feel powerful. Don’t let them make useful items. Don’t let them make gold. Don’t let them get nifty tier sets.” Ugh.
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Interesting perspective. Everyone knows the devs play WoW and are are said to be avid gamers. I’m wondering how much their time the devs spend in, say, raiding situations or arena/rated BGs versus other content. Is the leveling experience a one-off for them? Do they run pugs or hang out mostly with guildies or friends?
In short, does the fact that they play WoW matter if it doesn’t align with the experiences of the masses.
I feel like another really great example of this is the situation with Method and M G’huun (reference mmo-champion threads/2449683-Method-unable-to-kill-G-huun)
Obviously the OP is a bit hyperbolic because OF COURSE they CAN kill G’huun, but it is simply not worth the effort due to the mechanical nature of the fight and how it strictly favors certain comps. Obviously it is the last boss of the tier and it SHOULD be challenging, especially on a first kill, but the fight shouldn’t feel so bad that the best players in the world simply aren’t bothering to reclear. It should be fun, and the fun of it should be magnified by the power and progression of your raid team (easier transitions, blowing past damage checks, etc.), but there are just so many things right now that just aren’t fun. 2 months later and no one is going “wow this is so much easier now” even with more gear and ~7 (?)ish more stacks of reorigination array.
My feeling in general about WoW progression is that there’s an enjoyment sweet spot.
At some point your character becomes powerful enough to do all the content you enjoy and you have the transmogs you like. Going beyond that sweet spot forces you into content you don’t enjoy for no practical purpose.
Take high level keys for example. It’s apparent to me that a lot of players don’t enjoy the mechanics of them but they do them anyway for a chance at the loot lottery. But if they’re beyond the sweet spot on their character then grinding keys is drudgery.
What I do when I reach the sweet spot is change direction on that character or play another character. I’m not going to whittle my life away grinding content that I don’t enjoy for no practical outcome. Every piece of gear I have will be outdated in no time, even if it’s best in slot.
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But the point of a game is inherently to have fun; only doing content for the reason of there being a “practical” outcome makes it sound more like a job. My whole point is that there’s very little to do that’s enjoyable.
Maybe you’re burnt out because you have 8 max level characters, that you managed to gear enough to do +10s on, and you took the time to lvl them all.
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I don’t think so at all. As long as there’s something I want or need then I can enjoy the content. I can “feel” when my character isn’t powerful enough to heal the content I enjoy so I’m energized to make my character more powerful. I will willingly do harder content and see the challenge as enjoyable. Same goes for getting that perfect transmog piece.
But once I have the power I need for the content I enjoy, maybe even overpowered for good measure, then doing content that I don’t enjoy feels like total drudgery to me. That’s when the game becomes a job, in my opinion.
Kind of a non sequitur, didn’t take more than half a day to level each character, and they mostly got geared from simply doing one +10 each week (and bonus rolling it because they’re alts and raiding on them doesn’t interest me). The time commitment to gear them has been relatively low. A good reason to log in and play any of them is almostnonexistent, mostly because they’re all so geared but the content is just terrible
How many play and on what level? We know of a few. Ion is a raid logger. I’d guess that they all have accounts, but most do not play seriously.
This.
This char I realized I didn’t finish out some things like the basics to story mode. So I go back do some things. And go man…this stuff is taking some time kill almost as bad as it was at 113. 340+ is better but not feeling hero like better if that makes sense.
Was not asking for 1 shot kills. but…one would think the enemies halfway in the proudmoore admiralty zone would die easier now. I remembered why I stop doing this stuff when I dinged 120 to hit wq rotations fast lol.
RNG is not making me happy either. Been quite a few days of hoping for one legion assault in broken shores. I just want my order mount for the hunter I have been working on. This is all I need. No amount of skill gets this. RNG needs to say here is your assault sir!
Actually that is RNG squared. Broken shore to hit…on its random schedule when I play. This week I was off from work. One day I could be there for a 0600 local time start around 0700 after I dropped the kid off for school. Next week I go back to work :(. I am not catching these odd starts then.
I disagree that it is because of how you feel.
I think it’s about how you progress. There is a disconnect between effort vs reward. There is too much reward for too little effort.
LFR harder than Warfronts. Warfronts should give cosmetics.
RNG skinner box loot is only frustrating.
Crafted gear that’s essentially insurmountable in resources required with RNG stats… waste of effort.
AP for neck for useless azerite traits… feels pointless. A non-played toon at 26 vs. a played toon at 30.
Players will always choose the path of least resistence to gear… that path is so trivial you feel no sense of accomplishment.
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I think it has a lot to do with the loot system. People feel most of their progress comes from increasing their power and ilvl. But the entire system is ruled by RNG. Which does not feel good most of the time, especially at higher ilvls.
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My issue is that gear is too easily gotten. You can AFK through warfronts and world bosses for 355 or 370+ loot, or you can spend hours raiding Uldir and wiping in mythic+.
Why do the latter, other than to see the content? You can ‘see’ the same content in LFD and LFR.
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I mean that, and classes are in a terrible state and the lore is atrociously laughable.
Yeah, so we can’t give the expansion props for being one of the Most alt friendly expansion releases in years hmmm?
There is always a draw back.