Based on listening to Ion in the Shadowlands stream, it sounds like tuning is part of the last pass before release, while they focus more on fixing bugs and bad ideas earlier in the process.
Imo, Enhancement survivability falls into the realm of “bad idea”, so if throughout the beta test (whoever gets an invite) it continues to feel awful, I think that’s the verbage lean we need to apply to try to get more attention on it.
At the end of the day we’ll see how it feels at level cap, doing max level content, etc., but it felt worth pointing out because I don’t see why Enh survivability needs to continue to be so terrible, and I’m not sure tuning is “enough”.
Maybe it’s just cause I don’t pvp, but I really don’t see the enh survivability problems (on live, no idea about Alpha). Maybe I’m misremembering but I feel like I died more times on my warrior and my priest than I did on my Shaman when doing world content / dungeons. That said, I also hit Healing Surge as many times as I possibly can when under 80% health. I rate it as fairly high priority, Its my go to Maelstrom spender after SS, CL and Sundering only using LL when I don’t have enough mana, hot hand procs, or i’m over 80% health
Agree. I don’t see it as tuning. It’s fundamental spec design.
Right now, it’s just a bad idea to have a melee spec with mediocre mobility, poor control, and poor survivability.
It’s so different playing my ret. I’m honestly not sure why I would come back to enhance unless they do something major in terms of healing/survivability.
Alpha seems significantly worse than on live since hard cast heals are pitiful and you can’t spam instant cast healing surge anymore.
In terms of it being a problem, it’s mainly a problem in competitive content - pvp, high end raiding, high end M+. The game is well balanced enough and easy enough on lesser content that you can play anything and do fine and not notice the issues.
Your bike works just fine as a mode of transportation for getting you to the other side of the block on a sunny day. Not so much if you have to be 60 miles away in the next hour in a hailstorm.
This is fair. It just seems like the way people go on about enh survivability that there is a perception that ENH isn’t well balanced enough for even like M+5
That’s also fair, and definitely isn’t what I try to convey when I talk about Enh survivability. I don’t mean for it to come off as sensationalist, but after enough arenas and playing other characters, it’s such a glaring void of design to me.
Survivability didn’t stop my m+ group from clearing up to 18s without much effort (haven’t played the shaman for a long while now otherwise we’d probably have 19s and a 20 or two), but it did stop me from playing it (in conjunction with not enjoying the rotation much at all).
When I have blood of the enemy’s 25% crit dmg/heal bonus+Stormfury’s 20% crit dmg/heal bonus+ 31% vers, and even the cloak buff and my healing surges crit for only 50k it just… It just hurts man. Forgot to add the 10% self healing increase from Earth shield.
If you struggle with survivability as enhancement, it’s just not the class for you.
I have zero problems staying alive or avoiding damage, and no other melee DPS class has Earth Elemental, Earthbind, and the range of imbues (shocks) and Thunder Crash.
We never said Enh wasn’t fine for world questing and pet battles, or whatever it is you do. But if you’re going to troll a thread about class design, it’d work better if you had any chops to speak of.
I’ll make you a deal. Present the data which shows a survivability problem, let’s have a discussion about it, and I’ll withdraw my position. But according to the thousands upon thousands of logs out there, I’m unable to find your boogeyman.
Not all opinions need to be taken seriously, especially when you demonstrably have no experience doing any even remotely difficult content on your Enh Shaman. Are you going to trust someone who likes watching NASCAR to fix your engine, when they have no other background in understanding how cars work? You aren’t.
It’s a cute trick to force the other person to present the data, when you came in, disagreed without any argument or proof, demonstrably don’t have the background in the content that we’re talking about when we mention Enh Survivability needs work, and dismissed the enterprise outright as unnecessary.
You aren’t in a position to make deals. If you want to have an honest discussion, you’ll have to prove your position instead of handwaving at “thousands upon thousands of logs”.
That being said, I’m feeling generous, so based on the pvpleaderboard site, Enh Sham comprise 9 of the top 1000 3v3 ranks in the US. They are 42 of the top 5000. For 2v2 (arguably a better testing ground for personal survivability), they comprise 26 slots in the top 5000. That’s .5% representation.
Mechanically, our survivability arguably relies on stacking Vers alongside both Conflict & Strife and Memory of Lucid Dreams (which are disappearing after the expac), as well as +Vers corruption (which is disappearing after the expac). Fury of Air + Memory of Lucid Dreams is the best way to self-heal without sacrificing all of your damage resource for weak heals, and as I mentioned, Memory of Lucid Dreams is a borrowed power that won’t be here in Slands.
So tell me, which core Enh Shaman survivability mechanic that will carry over to Slands represents “enough” survivability for the kind of content we’re talking about? I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt here because I know you aren’t familiar with what it’s like to participate in the kind of content we’re talking about, but you seem to want to aggressively participate, so now’s your chance.
Agreed, several posts in the feedback thread bring it up ESPECIALLY after the change to our base healing and Maelstrom Weapon. What an absurdity that was.
Honestly it’s pretty darn noticeable even just questing in the 8.3 areas with some of the “elite” enemies. My ~420 Fury Warrior feels like an unkillable god on live when it comes to solo world content. I rarely ever see my health bar move on my Fury Warrior where as my Enhancement Shaman I had to take a specific essence and talent (Which honestly has been a game changer, Memory of Lucid Dreams + Fury of Air has been amazing on helping with the general feeling of being squishy) to counter some of the survivability issue and you can still tell when playing. I feel like I have to rely on my defensive’s regularly vs the situational feeling of other Melee classes defensive. Like I said, it is still noticeable in a lot of situations when you play the different classes side by side.
That’s just my experience, and mind you I am not some kind of end game player but I have played Enhancement enough to know its not in a good spot at all in terms of general survivability compared to other Melee, especially taking into account they wear the second strongest armor in the game. Group content wasn’t as bad for me but it’s not too hard to get out of stuff, the issue for me is when I am being directly attacked which makes it feel much more noticeable in open world and ESPECIALLY PvP.
Yeah, its pretty darn bad. I really do not get what the idea was behind nerfing the base healing and damage output of our cast time spells so that the MW stacks are negated. That one still has me scratching my head. I know one of the key points myself, and others, in the Alpha feedback thread made was that Maelstrom Weapon had issues and that it should increase the damage and healing of the affected spells… what I didn’t expect (Don’t want to speak for others but I don’t think anyone else expected it either) was for them to just flat out nerf us like that. I know that number tuning will come to pass but it still blows my mind that they did what they did. The changes basically negated the MW Damage and Healing bonuses and flat out weakened our baseline output with those spells.
With that said, I feel like feedback has been listened to a lot in a lot of ways on the Alpha forums so I have a bit of hope that changes will be made. I really, really, hope that changes are made.
It’s strange because I don’t find this to be my experience at all on my warrior. I get frustrated often by how little bloodthirst heals, and how conditional victory rush is when dealing with 1 hard to kill boss like enemy (in the 8.3 areas) and I remember dying very often around ilvl 830. Not that I’m saying you’re wrong, I’m just giving a counter perspective.
