I did the crate farm on my warrior today. He had done no pvp this season yet so everything was 0 across the board. For those wondering how fast you get bloody tokens, conquest, and honor per hour. I was getting 2400 honor, 960 conquest, and 900 bloody tokens. Thats with doing 4 zones per 15minutes
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Maybe itās a wow thing, but do players actually think this PVP gear system is good? That you have competitive content where the gear matters so extremely you may as well not participate until geared?
Maybe FFXIV is too simple but I always enjoyed just queueing with whatever and being on a fair play field because no stats mattered, only how you played.
At least my foreigner perspective would be that only trinket effects matter, which could be even a special equip slot and not even technically gear (like warmode pvp skills). Then PVP equipment is just easy pve gear that has visuals you can unlock (no PVP ilvl).
Seems so weird to enter this type of content and basically have an enforced core to the structure imbalance.
Though I can understand build craft can be part of the fun, but this is just a weirdly skyscraper form of it - at least from a foreign perspective. One that is used to being able to do PVP content whenever Iād like and even as a suitable way to level my characters (leveled so many jobs in FFXIV on PVP, I know the PVP kits a lot better than the pve lol).
Especially with the like āfirst before you PVP, you should just run around in a large death ball and farm chestsāā¦ How aboutā¦ I just get right into the PVP content? XD
War chests and war mode quests and weekly. Get a full set of prized gear that is ilvl 681 in pvp/
Grind some honor to get the honor trinkets while trying to do the weeklies.
Grind out conquest via whatever BG drives you the least crazy and doing weeklies. Generally I try to win one of each BG a day for the first completion bonus, and more of whatever is required for the weekly quest.
Remember to NOT buy the weapon you get that for free when you hit 2500 conquest points (or something like that) Edit: forgot the not haha
I generally saved enchants for conquest but up to you on money spending.
Save honor for Vicious Bloostones to get sockets. I also save these for conquest not lower.
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Who would think this is a good system to get into PvP thoughā¦? Given that it is competitive, and yet the stats on PvP gear are insanely valuable (absolutely eviscerating the competitive value, if youāre not gearedā¦ just seems like a really topsy turvy high as a kite decision).
Like I know it sounds insulting, and that isnāt the intent, but I also have no better way to frame itā¦
This just seems like a really weird choice. Hell, keep all the stat builds but make the PvP gear literally free (and do nothing in PvE), and you use the tokens to buy cosmetics so you donāt look like an inmate (those PvP specific token gear can have cosmetics).
To make it smoother, just remove pvp gear as the concept all together and make it a kit building element for PvP. Where you select your stat distributions, your ātrinketsā (general abilities everyone can access), your character specific abilities, etc. Then there is no such thing as āpvpā gear, just gear. As the idea seems an unnecessary, inventory clogging, concept anyways.
I suppose some might want set bonuses or other items to apply (non-trinket item effects), I would suggest thatās part of the kit building (can select effects from a pool), but I am also not of a WoW perspective where twinks is a thing to the level it is here (in FFXIV you can only be a twink in so much of your skill, not your gear).
Still have builds, but its far more competitive, and far more intuitive. As when I was new, I was wailing and wailing, with another person, on a same leveled character and we were barely scratching the massively boosted HP compared to our own, we were both confusedā¦ how is their hp so big, why are we doing so low damage, now I look back and realize that they had PvP gear on. This gear lead to both a confusing and unfun experience. With additional intuitive loss as you look at ilvl 630 gear that says āimagine Iām 680 in pvpā which you canāt even see what those stat numbers would be like, you have to close your eyes and picture it.
Itās uhā¦ a bit bewildering, and not in a cute arcane sort of way. Learnable, yes, but āwhyā.
On the other side though, thanks for taking the time to share methods to get gear.
I get you donāt like the gearing but that is not what the OP is asking for here, so maybe make your own thread about getting rid of gear.
I personally think without it there is no progression. I do think they should have much better matchmaking based on gear and a ton of other things, but that has little do to with how to gear up quickly and efficiently.
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Itās an MMO. you can still climb a lot in honor gear, the difference between honor/conq gear is a lot smaller than it used to be. you also get things like full embellishments/jewelry 5min after hitting max and can have 4p before even hitting max level.
Those wanting the MMORPG progression of earning gear by fighting for it in world pvp and instanced pvp as their preferred method still very much has that as an available option.
Those wanting to gear asap even though they started gearing after a pvp season was well underway has the MMORPG feature of grouping with a raid to farm the currency needed to gear with great efficiency, possibly in two play sessions or even one. Claiming crates for their faction as a team, still says MMORPG to me. Is it low stake/high reward? Absolutely. But crate farming is still optional, solo or in a small or large group.
Templates might be the easiest solution for some players, but others prefer gear customization choices. Choosing embellishments, enchants, crafted gear stats, making engineering specific gear with tinker slots, adding gem sockets and gems ect is player progression some players enjoy.
Both of you say MMO like that is a magical word, FFXIV is an MMORPG and it does not have gear stats in PvP. Chanting MMO does not make a defense of a concept lol. It reminds me of people who say its an MMO when solo content is brought up, and yet each year solo content is supported more because itās obvious there is a market for solo content in an MMO (and chanting its an MMO has done nothing against that). So I guess I see the words but they donāt mean anything to me in context of āwhy is this system promote gear imbalance?ā.
That said I can see you both like the system, obviously I think itās silly but thatās the fun part of opinions I guess. As an example while saying MMO means naught, to me, in the concept of the conversation, I can see that you enjoy crafting your build. Though then I think āwhy not craft but in a more balanced way?ā. Though I also note that progression is an interest, which could be done in a more balanced way tooā¦ but perhaps specifically the progression where you can rofl stomp someone because they havenāt progressed is part of that fun. Which I can see why youād then say its important (though Iād disagree that is a good thing).
Can have that without it being absurdly imbalanced as it can be currently. Like I said new me and someone else out in the wild just doing some PvP stuff and here comes this very geared priest (which we didnāt understand at the time), same level, but literally orders of magnitude more stats than us (made my tank HP at the time look like a little tickle in the pool). He couldnāt kill us, but we couldnāt even scratch him (wasnāt like he was using some cool skills to keep us at bay, he just had massive stats compared to us). Later we realized why, but at the time it was both bewildering and unfun.
Something that sounds ridiculous to me at least given FFXIV PvP experience where skill and balance is honestly better because of the lack of gear being part of the playing field (at peak WoW PvP where everyone has maxed out their options Iām sure it stabilizes, but in progression playā¦ you could very well be fighting an uphill battle not due to skill but due to gear, this just seems honestly silly (to me)).
When I started to talk templates and customization, with balance, I was discussing more like you had a screen where you selected stat distributions, trinket effects, and player skills, very much akin to what you already do - except that this had no ilvl. So it was balanced to skill and not gear.
This can very much just be a culture difference though I suppose, because to me this system just seems silly, as PvP to me is an expression of skill only and not progressing gear.
That and PvP is far more approachable when you donāt feel silly joining a content where you know your gear is bad, itās like joining late end game content in brand new level 80 gear. Though again thatās probably enshrined cultural differences, where I am used to (and clearly prefer) skill focused and gear sanitized system, and while WoW definitely has skill still, also has a non-sanitized gear system. I imagine at the end side of PvP where everyone is in peak gear, this is irrelevant, but the system (where it probably matters most, in terms of approach-ability) is at itās worst. Yes, yes you can sit and do war chests, but again comes back around to when I hear this and go āwhat silly system, why would I do a content I donāt want to do to do a content I do want to do?ā. And yesā¦ I am now gathering chests here and there so I can very well do what I would have liked, but its not because I had wanted to do the chestsā¦ its because I must.
I understand this conversation is likely to end in āagree to disagreeā. So have at me, I probably canāt add anything more unless it was to describe template systems. Which as a quick reference my mind had gone to those build a hero custom maps in wc3, where you could buy stats and abilities for tokens.
Your opinions are valid. MMO isnt the part that suggests gear progression, it is the RPG portion, butā¦ gear is also pretty much free if the person knows how to join a raid to war crate farm. Once a player has their earned or farmed BiS gear, gems, tier set, enchants, embellishments, they may feel stronger, or they may quit the game because they are still being slaughtered due to 1 part being new to max level pvp and 1 part a large percentage of the matches they participate in will be queue syncing enemy teams. That last part you canāt fix with templates, however I have no strong feeling against templates.
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To me building and gearing your character is an integral part of any mmo. So with how easy the system it is currently this complaint is odd to me. Its pretty much never been easier to pvp gear than it is right now. However I can see how it would be an annoyance if you started mid or late season and just werent aware of the system. Starting behind and getting wrecked over and over would be pretty frusterating. But all in all i think its fine.
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I appreciate you both explaining your views, I can understand them. I have my bias/preference of course, but I appreciate your articulation of preference, and I know I am an outsider in general so itās not surprising if something is different than Iād think.
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