Best Mage spec raid

What is the best mage spec to raid with?

Kyrian Arcane is probably the best (though Fire is very close) when you’ve done a fight enough to have every mechanic/downtime telegraphed in your head. Arcane/Fire are generally close enough to where the spec you’re more comfortable with would probably be better for you, assuming you play them both equally well.

Frost struggles on the fights that matter most on mythic. It’s only great fight late in the tier is KT - but it’s seen minor resurgence ever since the ST buff. It hates downtime in fights because essentially any DPS downtime double dips losses with IP since it can only manipulate IV cooldown while the buff is active.

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Frost mage is good for most fights.

If by good you mean the worst mage spec on basically every fight except KT and one of the worst specs overall on single target then sure.

Really though Arcane and Fire are a significantly better choice vs frost in raid. In m+ frost is great but it is not a raid spec in its current state.

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Frost has the ability to be top dps imo (some players do just fine with it)…but with the way some of the fights are designed, it usually winds up in the middle for me (I consider myself an average player) and even sometimes near bottom on certain fights (aka Sylvanas I seem to struggle a lot)…I honeslty can’t really stand frost in raid but in mythic plus i love it very much :slight_smile:

If Frost tops anything in raid (except maybe KT?) there’s something wrong with the other DPS in the group, it has good sim potential but in raid with externals and most raids planning around major DPS CDs there’s not much Frost can do. Even if you dig in the top Frost parses they’re often out-DPSed by people in their group.

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Repost again because the staff didn’t like a word I used before :unamused:

All 3 mages specs are good. You just have to be mindful of their strengths and weaknesses or else you’llnever going to have a good time. How some covenant abilities work also is a factor, like when using mirrors of torment. You have to make sure not to use it on an add that will die too fast or on a boss that’s not doing much of anything at some point because then you’ll get nothing from it.

Now, the issues talked about here for frost can be a problem with groups of people and tanks who are just all over the place with little to no sense of good boss positioning at all. I’ve been in pugs group from cn to sanctum and seen this be the defining problem for frost mages that I’ve grouped with. Organized groups with people who are not like this shouldn’t pose an issue for you when you play frost and even for arms warriors on the nine in normal and heroic in this current raid alone, but mechanics will be something to look out for in that case like with fatescribe and runes for group in heroic and up. Arcane can be disrupted by mechanics very easily as well if you’re not careful around mechanics. Fire, not so much. I can only see fire being disrupted if you’re forced to stop and move away while you cds are active with fatescribe being an example of this.

So, yeah. Weaknesses and strenghts must be accounted for :relieved:

Or just play the spec you enjoy the most because are arent in a WF raid

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Ah the advice of “play what you want because you aren’t in a world-first raid”.

Personally, I find that advice to be COMPLETELY WORTHLESS.

  • Unresponsive Answer -
    • The question was “what is the best raid spec?”.
    • The answer “play what you want” does not answer the question and provides no useful information to the reader.
  • Most Raiders want to perform well - Players at ALL skill and raid levels care about their performance.
    • They do not want to let down their team. This doesn’t just apply to top-tier world-first raiders.
    • Even mediocre players in mediocre raids seek to improve by picking the best spec for raiding.
  • Spec matters - It can mean the difference between scoring in the top 5 on the damage meter … or dead last.
    • This applies regardless of what level you raid at.
    • Even in normal mode raiding, it’s more fun when you feel you’re pulling your weight and are not just being carried.
    • And it’s even more enjoyable when you can compete for the top of the meter.
  • Spec can compensate for other things - such as low skill or poor reflexes.
  • The “play what you want” answer is condescending and annoying -
    • It comes off as sounding smug and superior. Sort of along the lines of “you’re not top tier, so you don’t matter.” It’s annoying.
    • Here’s an example of another similar question and similar answer that can be very annoying:
      • Question: “I want to be the best player I can be. What should I do to improve my gameplay?”
      • Answer: “You’re not a top tier player, so it doesn’t matter what you do. [You’ll always suck!]”
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After those St buffs i would say frost. Besides Painsmith frost has the ability to do amazing damage while you remain totally free to do mechanics without losing dps

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Amen, I hate this this advice. If the only time you should try and optimize your dps to the best of your abilities by playing the better performing spec is WF raiding then the vast majority of the content in the game is meaningless with that logic.

Just because it’s a heroic raid and not mythic doesn’t mean people want to carry subpar dps because “they are playing what they want”. Picking a bad dps class means you’re expecting other players to make up for your poor choice by having to work harder and that makes you an inconsiderate player imo.

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So play the “best” spec but hate it or play a spec you like and perform better? Literally you can take a spec you enjoy and when you enjoy it you’ll push it and perform better. Just because fire may be best doesnt mean everyone plays it optimally.

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I think what they mean is something more specific in detail concerning how the specs are would have been more helpful. Not that you’re wrong and you do have a point and they did kind of come off a bit aggressive, but it didn’t necessarily answer the question that the person was looking for :grimacing:

Also, I get the feeling that Mistwynd responded the way they did because of how many times people throw that out there without giving actually advice with stuff like this. We see it a lot and it is kind of irritating to a point.

There’s nothing wrong with “playing what you want.” WoW is a game and you should have fun playing it. If you’d have more fun with another spec, by all means switch.

However, “Play what you want” does not answer the question that was asked.

The topic of this thread is “What is the best spec for raiding?”

  • It is obvious that the OP clearly wanted to know which spec(s) perform the best.
  • There is a correct answer to this question. Some specs simply perform better than others in raids, due to balance, class or game mechanics.
  • A good answer to the question would identify which specs are best, and explain why.
  • “Play what you want” ignores the question completely. Which spec a player finds most fun is a separate factor from which spec performs the best.

A player may consider the answers to a number of different questions in choosing which spec to play, such as:

  • QUESTION 1: What spec generally performs the best and why?
  • QUESTION 2: What type of content am I doing?
  • QUESTION 3: What spec do I have the most fun playing?
  • QUESTION 4: What spec do I personally perform the best playing?

The thread asked QUESTION 1. The answer “play what you want” is only relevant to QUESTION 3.

Also, when “you’re not in WF raiding” is tacked on, then the statement sounds condescending and superior. It’s insulting to the reader.

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The answer to question 1 though is really only applicable to the players who can play the spec in question at the highest possible level (so not many players). You can do all content excluding very high level m+ with any spec.

For most players the answer to question 4 is going to be the best spec to raid with and do most types of content with and is the answer to the OPs question. You can play whatever you want as long as you’re good at it.

In each individual raid encounter there is an optimal spec and build to use. The best spec to raid with changes based on the boss and other factors like group comp, strats, etc.

My advice is try out each spec in the content you’re planning on doing and suss it out. Personally I enjoy the spec that I perform better with, so hope that the answer to question 3 and 4 are the same! Play what you want and get good at it.

And that’s where you’re COMPLETELY WRONG. It’s not just mythic raiders who enjoy maximizing their performance.

  • Regardless of the content level they play, many players like to do the best possible.
  • For a lot of players, the sense of power and accomplishment gained from doing well can be much more satisfying than gameplay mechanics.
  • Raiding is a team effort. Players want to do the best job possible to support their team. This doesn’t just apply to mythic raiders either.
    • a mediocre raid team with mediocre raiders might still require 100+ attempts to get their first kill on a heroic boss.
    • The difference between everyone picking the wrong spec v. the right spec might make the difference between the raid actually downing the boss and progressing, or getting stonewalled and falling apart.

Yes, you can do all content with any spec. But that’s not the question that was asked.

  • The OP doesn’t want to know what specs are mandatory for mythic raiding.
  • The OP just wants to know which specs perform best.

Some specs are better than others at specific tasks. Right now Kyrian arcane and fire have better tools for raiding than frost spec. Those specs are the best of the mage raid specs at present.

To answer the OP’s question, ignore ALL other factors. Just consider the toolkit available to each spec and evaluate the specs. It’s not rocket science. The player can consider on their own whether they would have more fun with a weaker spec.

If you’re having trouble understanding the OP’s question, think of it this way…

Consider the perspective of a hypothetical player who:

  • gains IDENTICAL enjoyment from the gameplay mechanics of EVERY spec.
  • has IDENTICAL skill at EVERY spec.
  • has or can obtain optimal gear for every spec
  • wants to do the HIGHEST DPS possible while raiding. The higher this player’s dps, the more FUN he or she has. This player may even enjoy competing with other raiders to try to top the damage meter.
  • The player does not want to waste his or her raid group’s time personally raiding with every spec. That’s why the player is here on the forums asking the question instead.

What spec should this hypothetical player play and why?

I somewhat agree, and think it possibly could have been worded differently or explain a bit further. The last time I remember the “play whatever spec” being relevant was possibly HFC when all 3 specs were so close that all 3 had potential to be top dps. With the crudtastic spec design now and massive disparity in power, it’s not really relevant now.

That said, I’m sure there are other players out there who would rather play a poor performing spec than the top spec if it plays like poo. I personally haven’t enjoyed Fire since Legion (and then mostly because Cinderstorm), and will never play it no matter how strong. I’ll play Frost because I find it easier, and I play to relax. Sure it doesn’t apply to the “what is best” topic, but it’s not entirely irrelevant if you aren’t really pushing hardcore Mythic. At the end of the day while performance matters, players do just want to have fun playing. It’s also worth noting that playing a spec well will often net you better results (eg: As Frost my purple parses will beat our high-geared Fire Mage with greens).

You mean the 4% buffs to ST that still leave it below-mid pack for ST? Yeah nah mate.

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Obligatory: The one you like the best.

The posts above make great points, Kyrian Arcane with knowledge is the bees knees, but the spec you are most comfortable with is always going to perform the best for you. :slight_smile: If you aren’t pushing anything higher than AOTC, just play and have fun. Then again, I’ve always played specs I hate, because doing more DPS is the most fun for me. :laughing:

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I’ve been doing Frost for funzies and while I like the buffs… I do agree that they are not amazing. It will be interesting to see the math (it probably exists and I haven’t looked yet) for double legendaries with Frost.

My god if you are this sensitive and triggered you really should stay off the forums