Hamuul is a good tauren. He should be allowed everywhere. He’s like the one dude I think everyone likes and don’t mind having around 
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But that’s all we’re even getting? I’m assuming you haven’t seen the debuff tooltip, because we’re clearly under heavy scrutiny the entire time we’re in the new place.
Uhh… No.
Saurfang, Sylvanas, Nathanos and a couple others. They’re the primary figureheads. The Horde Player is not involved in the planning or development of the 4th war. They’re a powerful single soldier attack force deployed under orders, not even a force commander.
I’m sorry, but you’re massively overstating the player’s role here.
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That’s why I mentioned “if this coexistence really exists in the future”.
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Wait, no you di-
…
Ok, look, I’m’a be real with you? I read this post three times and did not see that until the third time. Covid-brain is real and that’s my only excuse.
My mistake, carry on!!
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My bad, I saw that it was updated to that, but I also saw people mentioning Bel’ameth reputation on the forums and was confused as to what was actually happening. Was gonna check today, but the PTR was a mess.
I get that, but I meant that in-universe, with Sylvanas doing community service in the Maw, and Saurfang and Nathanos both being dead, I’d assume that the Horde player would get shouldered with alot of the blame from surviving Night Elves for their association with both wars.
It’s easier to blame the Horde player than it is soldier #382 since we’re canonically important figures, even if we weren’t calling the shots.
That’s why I said they’d see you as one, not that you were one.
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Only point of clarification; I think everyone considers the War of Thorns and the Fourth War as the same overall event, since one was the first strike of the other.
But… Fair take, actually. I can see that. I’d think more blame would be shifted to other still-present commanders like Baine, Lor’themar and Thalyssra (especially since they all only joined up the rebellion after the Horde PC and have a much shorter track record of saving the world)… But that’s not to say they wouldn’t also throw the Horde Player in there as well. Quest text certainly implies we’re not some nameless soldier; we’re kinda a big deal.
So yeah, I can see it.
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I imagine a lot of surviving Kaldorei have the mentally of Well, you were a-ok with the war, until it stopped going your way and than you rebelled at the last minute with everyone else even if your particular character hated it and wanted nothing to do with it. It sucks, but I can see why a lot of the survivors would be extremely bitter about the horde hero being around.
(Not saying I agree with it or anything, just looking at it from a strict in universe perspective)
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I think one of the main things being over looked in the Horde Story Railroading Expereience is that, for the larger part of this entire Night Elf Renewal arc was to basically try and course correct the One Greatest Mistake that Blizzard ever let happen under their stewardship of the War of Thorns.
And now that this particular chapter seems to be drawing to somewhat of a close, I’d love to get more air time on how the wider common Horde people feel about…well, anything happening currently.
There’s the Orc and Forsaken Heritage quests, but like, it’d be nice if we had some world flavor that was along the lines of the Night Elf visitors that come to Bel’ameth to show that they still in fact control their native territories. Something like, I don’t know, ambassadors or supply delivery people that just show up, drop stuff off, have two bits of dialogue and then leave?
Because as someone who considered himself Primarily Horde, the ole faction Pride really hadn’t felt anything to be proud o since about Cataclysm. And by BfA, I was already sharpening my spear to Stab Sylvanas the moment they made it clear the Horde would once again be the offending party. Patterns had emerged and been consistent for a while by then, and lord was I sick of them.
Horde feels like a faction of antagonistic NPCs at this point. They haven’t existed in the Macro Narrative for a while. The closest we get to something resembling Horde Interaction in the world is at the Ruby Life Pools, and that’s more to do with the Blackrock Clan well before the Horde was truly a thing.
Ohter than the Baine quest (which was basically a “sorry we missed this in Shadowlands” do-over, the Horde as an entity has been largely non-existent in the story. Which, yeah, it’s the Night Elves’s Party right now and I’m not exactly gonna ask that they get upstaged on that. But man, I’d be lying if I said I wish there could be some form of gossipers or pubgoers talking about the New Tree and how they feel about it.
For some it could have been a chance to stop an atrocity they were powerless to prevent a previous time. For others it could be just a nagging obligation. Who are we to know? No one does because nothing of the sort is penned into the game at present.
The players certainly have voiced their disdain at being serial villain bat-takers, I can imagine that sentiment is practically writ large across the base of people who were drawn to the pre-cata Horde like I was. Because at this stage? There is no way the Horde could ever overcome the laundry list of vile things that happened under the writer’s direction.
But that doesn’t mean the desire to attempt to do so should be simply written off as a “eh, whatever, Tyrande forgives us I guess” No, dude, where’s my daily quest grind to help Rebuild Theramoore? Where’s the Diplomatic talks to get a permanent lumber arrangement that doesn’t involve deforesting Ashenvale till it’s Barren? There’s so much Narrative stuff to be excavated here that simply is just going untapped. The entire narrative voice of half the playable characters is practically non-existent and it’s growing more conspicuous in it’s absence.
this was very rambly because I’m sleep deprived and may well be going full stream of consiousness but man I just want my gameplay fantasy of Penitent Horde rep grinds where we undo all the mess that we had no say in participating in as a result of Afrasiabi’s wild ride with Kosak’s co-piloting.
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I agree whole-heartedly with your desires for more narrative repentence for the past, but unfortunately we are still playing WoW… and I can’t imagine the participation rate or reactions to that taking up dev time being very positive.
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WIth how detatched I was from the motivation the Narrative tried to provide me, I feel it’s less like repentance and more like “sorry my coworker totaled your house, let me help you build a new one.”
Because I sure as hell didn’t sign up for the Horde Narrative, yet nevertheless, it happened. Now the only thing that will make me wiping the stains from the ledger. Hearing the alliance go “Water under the Bridge” will soothe the present, but it will do nothing for the memory.
And yes, I am aware this is probably the most narrow fantasy out of many but by god does it vibrate within every fiber of my being.
Still, I’ll take peace over nothing. Any day without a warmongering Cheif or a hackneyed contrivance to continue a war that was a marketing beat at best and a Sportsman rally at worst, I’m content to live in the world of Warcraft, no matter how “Disney” (I use this phrasing in the most mocking of intonations of it’s invocation) it gets.
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Here are the wisps of Amirdrassil. As it is PTR, more may be added.
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Teared up seeing Ilthalaine, I won’t even lie.
Loving seeing some appearances of my favorites like Mordent Evenshade, Belysra Starbreeze and Delas Moonfang.
Unpopular opinion but I’m also really pleased to see Delaryn Summermoon getting some bittersweet closure to her arc.
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I hope that’s not an unpopular opinion. Delaryn’s personality being warped by undeath was depressing.
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She seems to of come out of her nihilistic funk at least some since she reunited with Ferryn, so that’s something.
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I mostly mention ‘unpopular’ because Delaryn as a character hasn’t been super well received from what I’ve gathered. Mostly from the ‘is she Forsaken or not?’ flip-flopping of her appearances.
I’ve really liked following her (and the Darkfallen) arc from the War of Thorns up to this point. I’m so glad she’s gotten to reunite with Ferryn, seeing him looking for her in Ardenweald sent me. 
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That’s supposed to be one of the points of undeath as a condition, though.
Being edgy is part of the deal of becoming undead.
It is, which is why raising people into undeath is wrong regardless of if they retain their free will or not.
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Oh, I thought you were suggesting that her mental state was being cured by returning to her people.
Still, I think it would’ve been “fine” in situations like Zelling’s where it was someone trying to stave off death and accepting the consequences even after being warned of them. It’s just unfortunate that it occurred during BFA because it came with the extra baggage of him then working for Sylvanas’s horde.
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And then being nonchalantly killed off. That was so pointless.
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