The thing is you’re adding context, where there was none in the OP’s essay. I’m not interested in hearing you provide context the OP didn’t provide. I’m not interested in hearing you speak for the OP.
On the matter of the contradiction: let me sum it up for you, in a way that will be more plain… the OP has basically said, “These aren’t reliable measures”, and then proceeds to use them anyways. That is a contradiction.
Then you’re admitting that you aren’t interested in a viewpoint that potentially contradicts what you said. You’re basically being a hypocrite at this point.
That’s not what he said. You’re making assumptions that seem obviously false. He literally used the word “currently” when referencing rating as being reliable, and literally used the words “could in fact serve as evidence of skill but definitely cannot be referenced as irrefutable proof” for the prior achievements. You ignored that for whatever reason.
Didn’t work. Read like 7 words then decided my time was better spent replying that this was a dumb post
I disagree with this misrepresentation wholeheartedly. Shame on you for employing such a loathsome argumentative tactic. Welcome to the WoW forums I suppose.
I’m analyzing what the OP has said in their original essay - not what someone else has said for them. What part of that don’t you understand?
Apologies if I seem a bit harsh in my responses - I really do not mean it in that way.
I did not ignore it; in fact, I quoted it above… did you even read what I wrote?
The fact is saying, “…Could in fact serve as evidence of skill but definitely cannot be referenced as irrefutable proof” begs the question: should we be referring to rating (etc.) then in our discussions of what makes for skillful players? It seems as if we ought to have been avoiding it, given what the OP had said… and, yet, they go on referring to rating as a measure of skill.
Thanks for your time,
Chän
Everyone who disagrees with this post is likely triggered. Not saying I agree with everything in this post but, if there’s ever something along the lines of “you are not as good as you think you are” posted I agree with it.
Basically what I am trying to tell in all my posts: If you lose, it’s in 99% of the cases not the opponent’s fault: it’s yours! Yours alone!
But the guys in this forum don’t listen, they are so used to noobish bfa gameplay where they could tank all damage open field with their destro lock, they can’t adapt to preemptive gameplay. They are so used to use their cooldowns at 20-30% health which was enough in BfA, but will let them die in SL, so they blame the game instead of themselves.
Lol no. Just no. Gear isn’t negligible but it is a tie breaker at best. Again, I’m 206 or something in pvp gear. 35k hp or what have you. Put me in 184 gear and I’ll still crush these 1600 people you talk about even if they’re 215. How you play is far more important than just “lolz gear.”
What a crazy thing to say.
It’s really not. I mean the ilvl disparity to create a 25% gap would be massive. But even so, go against someone who has no idea how to chain together any cc and the one that does will win. You’re acting like 2v2 is just two people smacking each other in a mock pve type scenario and whoever does more dmg wins. If you think this, it’s probably why you’re at where you’re at.
To be fair, it’s not.
This isn’t BfA anymore, where secondary stats dominated and where a socket had the value of 10-15 ilvl. This is SL where primary stats got the right place back.
Primary stats are boosting your damage and your defense the most. That makes ilvl having the biggest value. Take Trill’s 220 pvp ilvl. I simulated him with his pvp gear with mine, the difference was nearly 30% damage and he also has 8k more hp, which is like 25% more hp. Also 3% more versa (1.5% higher wall).
If we would duel each other, both with the same exact setup: When I would get him to 40% with my setup, I would die from his.
So please, stop talking as ilvl doesn’t have a big impact. You can compensate missing ilvl a bit, if you play a high cc comp like RMP, or mage setups in general, but if you face the exact same composition with nearly equal skilled people, they will just crush you if they all have ~15 ilvl more in average or something. Literally crush you!
You can disagree all you want, but you’re factually being hypocritical.
Because your analysis is flawed, and “someone else” pointed out the flaw. You’re simply choosing to ignore it.
None taken.
You quoted one thing, and I quoted two, which contradicts your argument. It’s like me saying “I like boobs” and later saying “I’m not attracted to my sister”, and somehow you use the first quote to come to the conclusion that I like my sister’s boobs. It’s a flawed analysis. You’re leaving out key data.
You’re generalizing “rating” when he’s talking about prior achievements, a specific type of rating. That’s the flaw.
The key words being “it seems”. You’re making that assumption for him, and instead of using his next statements about current rating as clarification to that, you automatically assume he contradicted himself.
Calling people names in a bid to elicit emotional responses that skew their perception is a loathesome tactic. My post was addressing the original essay, not your interpretations of it.
You pointed out your interpretations, and your additional contexts. I chose not to listen to that. I’m not addressing your interpretations. See above.
It’s not like that at all. This is a terrible comparison.
You’re speaking for them, and reading more into it than has actually been confirmed. That’s yours.
There’s a lot of keywords there… let’s see if you can find some more, besides the one(s) that suit your argument alone?
Thanks for your time,
Chän
What’s your ilvl then? What’re we talking about here? I mean again I have like 36k hp and saw wizk playing at R1 range with like 27-28k. 
I know main stat has the largest impact now (thank god) but I’m not convinced in a real world scenario people have that difference. I mean I don’t see that anyway. I thought I was undergeared at like 205 to be honest buts it’s not a big deal at all.
Like I know gear matters. But this isn’t a dps check. All I’m saying is skill and how you play greatly out weighs it. I don’t buy people complaining they’re gated somewhere because everyone is twice as strong. I mean I don’t run into these mythic raiders that one shot me. Is 205 high or something?
You seriously don’t think have 8k more HP, which equates to about 28% more than your opponent in that scenario, (and about the same increase in damage) is significant? Haha. Come on now. That’s a massive deal. Your opponent has to make up all of that health/damage difference in the skill difference just to match your output.
What names were you called? And to elicit emotional responses? Are you really accusing me of this now? Where’s your proof?
That’s fair, just as it’s fair for me to say that your argument is thus flawed for leaving out key data.
It’s a great comparison actually. You’re taking the first thing he said, ignoring the second and using the first only with selective parts of the second to come to your conclusions.
I’m not speaking for them, but rather pointing out the potential flaw in your analysis. You seem to concretely believe he contradicted himself, and I pointed out how that’s not accurate. You might be right about your assumption, but you could also be wrong, and thus making a definitive stance before having all the information is wrong. Not only that, but to most it seems obvious what he was implying.
I was kind enough to point them out for you. I’m not a mind reader, so unless you tell me what problems you see, I’ve yet to see any others we haven’t already discussed.
This.
Most games see health spiking, and having even a little extra padding is often the difference between a death or a recovery.
I can’t tell you how many times that I get a heal off with like 1k health left. Its almost every arena battle, sometimes multiple times in 1 fight.
As the healer, in any long fight, I’m also going OOM faster since I have to heal through more damage and my heals are weaker.
And what comp did he play? A comp with a lot of cc? But we are seeing it from the wrong pov: Imagine what he would do, if he would have 20 ilvl more.
Or imagine if he’s facing people of the same composition and the same skill level, but all of them are at 38k hp and dealing 25%++ more damage. Do you think he would have just the slightest chance to win?
At that moment I made the simulation it was 198 I think.
What you don’t get, it’s not only the damage that scales. It’s also the hp.
Depends on which you use to compare with. 205 is pretty low if the other guy has 220 ilvl, but it’s pretty high if the other guy has 190!
But that isn’t true. SURE: skill matters! Skill can compensate some ilvl. But you still get stomped by an equal composition with equal skilled player, if they outgear you a lot!
And yes, some people can play on top ratings with “bad” gear, but usually only, if they have enough cc! I mean, I also saw Raiku+Whaazz+Ratapai playing their undergeared alts on 2.6 mmr, but with their normal equipped main classes, they are playing on 3.1+ mmr.
And I doubt that they would have been able to reach 2.6 mmr with like TSG or Arms+Ret or something, as they would just get stomped by most teams, just by pure damage!
Last I checked, “Hypocrite” is a noun - and is, in many cases, emotionally-loaded. I’m not a “Hypocrite” merely because I’m interested in hearing from the OP concerning the essay they wrote, and not interested in listening to people speaking for them. That’s not what “Hypocrisy” is; thus, it seems you are abusing the emotional force of the word to skew perceptions.
I agree that you may say what you wish. This is a public forum, after all.
You’re speaking for me now as well? Oh my.
The only way for me to know whether or not the OP has definitely contradicted themselves is to allow them the opportunity to counter-argue. They can. You coming in and waving your arms about saying, “This is what they meant” isn’t helping because you’re not them. I’m open to the possibility of being incorrect - it’s entirely possible, but I’m addressing them - not you; after all, they wrote the essay - not you. If anyone knows (for certain) what they meant, it’s the OP.
That said, I’m more than game to counter-argue - or perhaps complicate - your above points concerning past/present rating/achieves as suitable measures. We could have a jolly good discussion on the difficulties there are in accurately quantifying something as vague and indeterminate as “Player skill”, while also taking into account the multitude of ever-changing factors that make this an incredibly trying task.
I’m alive to the fact that I could be wrong. Thanks for… informing me. This is why I’ll be waiting on the OP to know for sure. I’d like to see how they respond - not how you respond for them. Maybe they have good reasons for saying things that at least appear quite contradictory? Who knows?
Really? Now you’re speaking on behalf of “Most people?” Are you not seeing how your speaking for others is a problem?
Thanks for your time,
Chän
Hypocrisy is the act of doing exactly what you’re criticizing someone else of doing, which is what you’re doing. It’s not name calling, it’s being factual. What else do you call it when you do what you criticize others of? If you’re emotionally impacted by that, it’s on you, as that isn’t my intention.
I didn’t speak for you at all. I said you seem to believe he contradicted himself. That’s exactly how it seems, unless you can clarify otherwise.
Yet you already definitively stated “just pointing out the contradiction embedded in your essay”, when now the only way to know for sure is if he counters that? You jumped to conclusions, and I pointed out the flaw in that, nothing more.
Now you’re putting words in my mouth, hypocritical behavior yet again. I said that with certain context, they could mean something else, which contradicts your accusation of him being contradictory. I never said definitively that he wasn’t contradicting himself.
Thank you, that’s all I was pointing out.
There’s something called common sense, and when someone differentiates between two things and yet someone else generalizes, most people side with the differential and not the generalization, because most of the time they’d be right. In this specific case, I’m referring to Occam’s razor. The simplest explanation is that he didn’t contradict himself.
I find it oddly amusing how satisfied you feel about your own response. You even went as far as to signing your own reply. That’s some seriously deeply rooted narcissism you got going there and I wish you god speed in overcoming your condition.
In regards to your response; The quotes you referred to from my post do seem to show a contradiction. However, if you were to apply the use of rudimentary context clues and have basic reading comprehension capabilities, you would understand that I don’t describe rating as a measure of a players skill but a by-product produced by a players ability in arena.
What happened here is simple:
You read the post with malicious intent, looking for anything within the post that you could use to disqualify my summary as a whole, but you acted too hastily and that was your critical error.
Rather than attempting to understand the concept behind the writing you latched on to the first thing you deemed a red flag.
Haters gonna hate.