Beast Mastery Hunters need a buff and their pets need to be fixed


(Yvaelle) #6

BM definitely has real problems right now, but you are mischaracterizing the problem by focusing on DPS, and by using Mekkatorque as example.

First, Marksmen is the 3rd best DPS spec on Mekkatorque out of 24, Survival is 7/24, BM is 12/24: still better than half the specs in the game on that fight.

Second, it’s not accurate to say casters are dominating that fight, and especcially not to say DoT casters. Shadow, Balance, and Fire are all adjacent to BM as being average DPS on Mekkatorque. Affliction is the outlier at 5th, but it’s actually Demonology Locks (pet class) that dominate Mekkatorque: not Affliction (dot class).

Third, I’d argue it was the 5% aura nerf in 8.1 that wounded BM hunters that you are feeling, and not the azerite ring discrepancy. Every class I follow has issues with the azerite traits and rings: it’s not a unique problem to BM, and it doesn’t explain the magnitude of decline from last tier to this tier - but the aura nerf perfectly describes the problem.

Lastly, I would reconsider what you consider a weakness for certain classes. Mekkatorque is not so movement intensive that it hurts casters. And good casters are the least impacted by movement - because they stutterstep during instant casts. And top parses have a strong inherent bias to the casters who were not forced to move much during a fight: so the caster who didn’t need to move all fight will get a top parse for their class, but this bias doesn’t apply to BM.

By focusing on top WarcraftLogs, you are filtering BM hunters by (best)gear and performance, but you are filtering movement-impacted casters by essentially gear, performance, and luck. The benefit of BM being virtually immune to movement DPS losses, is that BM has far greater consistency of performance than caster specs, for what that’s worth.


#7

We know how to fix it - it shouldn’t be broken


#8

The problem does exist with BM traits, but it’s more an expression of BM scaling terribly over the course of an expansion. Which leads to a predictable cycle of
BM does well at the start of an expac, gets heavily nerfed early, limps along for the rest of the expac.

If what you said was true BM wouldn’t be middle of the pack on the most movement intense fight in the tier. It would be at or near the top. Since it isn’t, it means that even in places it’s designed to excel the best the spec can manage is middle of the road - it’s a serious issue.

Add to that that several talent choices are either highly redundant or fundamentally broken - in addition to a serious issue with pets malfunctioning on major fights - it paints a rather bleak picture for the spec.


(Yvaelle) #9

I agree about the general trend of BM being near top at the start of expansions and sucking by the end of expansions.

Movement intensity is relative. Mekkatorque really isn’t that movement intense compared to some other fights in other tiers. So even if it is the most movement intense, it’s not necessarily holding casters back as much as other fights from other tiers might have: the relative benefit of BM may not be visible.

I’m only contesting the idea that Mekkatorque DPS is a useful metric of the problems BM is facing. Think of it this way, if we reverted the 5% aura nerf BM took in 8.1, BM would suddenly be tied for the 4th best spec on Mekkatorque: tied with Arcane Mages, behind Demonology, Elemental, and Marksmen.

And yet, none of the talent issues, rotational issues, azerite issues, or scaling issues would be fixed. Talking about DPS lends authority that a problem exists, that’s why everyone does it, but that should be self-evident.

A damage aura buff would fix the metric (Mekkatorque DPS) without addressing any of the actual issues (the Shadowpriest treatment: we do damage now, but we still aren’t any fun to play).


#10

Let me start off by saying I’m not intending to attack anyone and I also probably won’t be commenting again on this thread. I didn’t state everything as clearly as I should have in my post.

?? That’s the point of this thread though.

Yes, marksman is doing quite well on this fight because they have strong single target dps. This is about BM though, I specifically didn’t mention marksman or survival in my post.

I never said they were dominating. My point was that they’re still beating BM in single target (albeit not by a lot) when the frequent reason given for why they can’t be nerfed on multi-dot/cleave (or BM buffed on single target) is that they wouldn’t be able to compete on single target. BM being 9th out 11 ranged specs on 75th percentile heroic Mekkatorque indicates otherwise (excluding melee from this since their raid spots are usually somewhat separate and it’s a fairly melee unfriendly fight).

First of all, the aura nerf was in the first week of Uldir, not 8.1, so it was effectively the entire tier. Second, if you added back in the 5%, BM would still be 5% behind marksman and 9% behind Demo on this fight. Essentially back where it was at overall in Uldir. This means that there has to be a scaling/azerite trait problem. I would actually point to the last minute nerf (I think it was something like 30%) to our mastery a few weeks before 8.0 as a major source of our scaling problems.

This is exactly why I didn’t look at top logs. 75th percentile as a caster is easily achievable with average luck, good gear, and knowing how to play your spec. If you look at 95th percentile, BM suddenly plummets down to the worst ranged spec and is over 20% behind Demo locks.

edit: this is Snickelfrits btw, not sure why it changed characters


(Kaivax) #11

There’s a significant set of changes to Beast Mastery coming in the content update next week. These were shipped off toward the PTR yesterday, but haven’t appeared there yet:

  • Barbed Shot damage increased by 125%.
  • Barbed Shot’s bleed damage now ignores the target’s armor.
  • Cobra Shot damage increased by 25%.

For the Heart of Azeroth:

  • Feeding Frenzy’s tooltip damage displayed has been lowered commensurate with Barbed Shot now ignoring armor. Its total effective damage remains unchanged.

As always, you’ll see these (and everything else) in the final update notes, which we’ll publish just before the update goes live.


BFA Unholy Death Knight Feedback (Cont.)
#12

Not sure that’s will be enough, considering BM’s are so far behind all other classes…

Should have reverted 5% Uldir nerf as well and fix BM scaling with gear, because scaling is completely broken, amount of DPS you get from upgrading your gear as BM is so much smaller compared to other classes…


#13

I mean, it’s better than nothing? But it’s not going to fix anything. Scaling is still borked, pets are still derp, not a revert to that 5% nerf…


#14

Nice copy/paste while ignoring the bug issues that have been plaguing hunter pets since the start of the expansion.


#15

Reverting the nerf that came at beginning of expac that as of now is completely unnecessary would go a long way to making BM semi viable. Not top lvl dps, but least competitive enough to bring to a raid. Barbed shot dmg buffs is nice but in the grand scheme of things, it does so little dmg to make too much of a difference, might make FF a little more valuable though.

Cobra shot also will be a little nice, but again, the slapping nerfs at the beginning are the biggest issue right now still hampering BM from being semi-viable for raid. On top of Raid encounter design favouring other classes.


#16

Sorry but these buffs are meaningless when the spec will fall behind again next tier due to how bad the spec scales. nevermind the other issues plaguing the spec. for fixing the scaling of Beast Mastery there only seems to be problems with Beast Mastery Scaling again.


#17

umm is there any news about Feral yet… like srsly??


#18

Yes, there was some “New News” about feral druids. However, that was posted in a different thread one which has nothing to do with this thread and the recent hunter changes.

Now mind you, you will have to look for that thread using the search feature, but I am sure you will find it.


#19

My calculations show that those changes will result in about 4.5% DPS increase, which is clearly not enough to make BM hunters even remotely competitive in Battle For Dazar’alor raid where most of the bosses are dominated by warlocks, shadow priests, moonkins and other classes/specs that do 10-30% (depending on the boss) more DPS than BM hunter…

At least give us good single target DPS as we can’t do spread cleave or multi dot…


#20

how about you buff abilities we actually use often for damage instead of the ones at the bottom, that would make an actual change. How about reverting the overall 5% nerf that was done twice if i recall correctly. Why not make our traits do MORE. Why not fix our Pet ai so they dont get stuck in places, take weird routes such as those like those listed by the OP - it happens in more places but if our arrow can hit it so should our pet.

why not make our pet ignore any armour a boss has - which is probably not much for some and more for others, instead of making barbed shot’s dot ignore it. Why not make us just plain ignore armour if this is at all going to do anything more than 1% more damage which is what this feels like it will at the most. Why not just give us 10% extra damage each raid drop, to compensate for poor azerite choices. They don’t scale as well as other specs and since the start we are just moving down the list of specs to invite, to the bottom. People use auto kick aura’s to auto kick specs like feral and survival may as well just not invite hunters at this point as 2/3 won’t be viable pretty soon. Is this what you want?


#21

is it as easy as a 378 lfr hunter? I might need help


#22

This really is not a real help, we need to get the Kill Command dmg to scale. There is no sense to have the CORE skill of the spec doing less dmg than the auto-atacks


#23

It could be, but that’s only if you try. You know, like putting forth the effort to armory someone and trying to throw shade on them for “In a polite way” saying move a long and find or create a “Feral Druids need love to” thread.

For a moment you had me checking my gear like “wait I haven’t ran LFR but twice and that was for some better trinkets”. Then I realized you found my 1 lfr item, a ring.

Hot damn Anonymity and armory shaming is such an old thing to use.


#24

I honestly don’t think Blizzard has any plans to fix or correct the pet A.I or pet damage.

Blizzard will toss out tweaks to Beast Mastery but not when it comes to the pets. All the complaints they got early on from people regarding hunter pet damage was to loud.

Whenever there has been any changes to increase hunter pet damage it is met with disdain from other players who hate the fact the hunter pets in some ways is a send and forget it mechanic.

Yes, having played the game since 2004 as a hunter I understand the finer points of controlling your pet A.I to maximize it’s potential but that never seems to come into play when the complaining starts and the Developers are forced to take action.


(Beastbashx) #25

Jumps up and clicks heels together

Thank you Blizzard for a taking a look at barbed shot (consistantly doing less damage than azerite traits and it is a core ability).

While you all are at it, can you please please please fix “Aspect of the Wild” it does not give the intended crit when you use it. 10% more crit on our main dps cooldown would really help if it actually worked.

And could you please consider allowing barbed shots damage effect to stack on the same enemy.
Currently the only part of this ability that stacks is the added pet speed.
The damage portion is always the same, which makes the ability kind of funky… cause intuitively you would figure it would stack… but it doesn’t.
So you waste 3 globals trying to get the pet speed up, and the damage you yourself are doing is just reapplying the same dot you did 3 globals earlier. Then 3 more cooldowns, then you can attack (bestial wrath, aspect of the wild, crows).
Seems a little lengthy doesn’t it? That is more ramp up time than a affliction warlock needs.

Thanks Mr. Blue!