And this is what I’ve been saying. Although I’ve set the bar higher. I’ve never once denied that bears are trailing behind the other tanks. Not once.
But this whole “bears are getting 1 shot in 17 keys”. That’s a player skill issue (things happen, I get it. Eating tank busters in CoS from a succubus that was brought up). With how much the damage increases exponentially from a 17 to a 22 for example, if Bears were getting one shot at 17, there’s no way they’d be able to do 22s…but they are.
And that’s the difference in skill level.
We are though. “In my experience”. “In a 17 key I…”
I agree, I’ve admitted as much. I’m arguing the “bears are not viable” arguments. They are 100% capable of doing the content they were tuned and balanced around doing (20 keys).
Beyond those 20 keys though, we’re not going to see tuning for what’s happening in 25 keys (because the devs don’t care about that level of play. Their game is designed around Mythic raids, 20 keys [for this expansion], and 3s).
Could Bears use a little loving? Yes of course. TnC could operate properly and work with magic damage for instance.
But are bears broken and unable to complete 20 keys? No. Data shows that 60% of Bears that attempt 20 keys time it. Warriors are at 70% for attempts to completion. That’s not a huge gap especially considering how much better Warriors are than Bears. The way people are talking, with Warriors being far superior and having a 70% completed ratio, I’d expect bears to be closer to only 40%
The argument that you don’t seem to be understanding is that other classes don’t have to play around things like the CoS succubus tankbuster because of their passive magic mitigation. You know what happens if a warr eats one at the same key level with their normal mitigation (SB & IP)? They take maybe 25% of their hp tops and it doesnt affect the key. If I’m in a pug and try to interrupt a mob next to it and get caught, it’s prob a wipe.
Having to kite and dodge normal mobs at levels that other tanks just shrug the damage off feels gross. I don’t want to moonfire spam and run around, I want to tank while still doing damage and have something in my toolkit to help survive magic burst.
Bears pushing these high keys are admittedly better players than I but they have to play at skill levels ~3‐5 levels higher than the actual key they’re running to have the same results. Ironfur is garbage and our kit has absolutely no built-in magic mitigation. Our tree is a mess with 20 talent points in the capstone area and only 10 to spend which gates silly things like rage generation which is usually in t2 talents for other classes. Want to try a full physical build? Enjoy not having RotS because it’s gated by moonfire talents for some horrible reason.
Yes, bears can time high keys, but what you’re missing is that the only people still playing bear are the best of the best and still rely on externals and group CC far more than any other tank, only to still underperform in relation.
Do you understand what you’re trying to say? Because you say this, then follow up the very next line with:
So they’re running both their active mitigations…that’s not passive.
This isn’t anything new. And Bears aren’t the only players. The lower half of the DPS ranking specs have to do this as well. Bring the player, not the class.
In relation to content that’s not subject to balancing and tuning. I don’t disagree that they’re lagging behind the other tanks, but that starts falling j to content that the devs will not be looking at.
Again, if other tanks were clearing 20s and Bears were hard stuck at 18…then we’d see some more positive changes for bears
You do realize that SB is 100% uptime and IP is their vastly superior form of ironfur, right? Or are you being intentionally dense to avoid admitting that you’re wrong?
You’re arguing semantics in regards to a 100% uptime buff and a rage dump DR lol. Idk why I’m even talking about guardian 16+ bear mitigation issues this season with someone with 0 tanked keys on their io so far.
I’m arguing your point where you said that if neither Guardian nor Prot Warrior was running any form of defense or mitigation, that the Warrior would take less damage, as per:
You’re claiming a Warrior can charge right in and go afk and eat a Fel Devastation and be just fine because of their “passive” mitigation. The only one I think that stands a chance is perhaps Paladins because they get a chance to block spell damage. That’s passive magic mitigation
This is what I’m arguing. I’m not arguing active mitigation abilities and which one is better. I’m correcting you on your misinformation
For someone that claims that others put words in his mouth you sure do make up a bunch of things that other people say, huh?
If I were interested in the thoughts of someone with 0 bear druid experience and not even a tenuous grasp on what mythic+ tanking rotations were like, I’d ask the druid lead dev. Move along.
but bliz nerfed fun. where is thrash spam blinder. now we cant say “atlesat its not just thrash spam” because all it is now is “nothing. every other tank does it better”
I understand them perfectly but to act like they dont balance above a +20 key is a joke. they use the information from the top players as part of their decisions to balance. they have even held off on nerfs before for events like mdi. just look at lock and hunter nerfs last expansion. so to sit their and act like they dont take into account the highest pushing groups is dumb on an whole other level.
It wasn’t because they were pushing 30 keys and no one else was (otherwise they’d have taken into account and nerfed the tank, third dps, and healers that were dominating the top keys too, but not the case).
They may make adjustments BASED off of what’s happening at the top, but it’s not to affect nor help the top keys. The numbers they tune with are for the 15-20 range.
I.E. to make bears more competitive in the 25 key range would take a HUGE buff to a certain criteria in the bears kit. But they won’t make that buff go through. Instead, they’ll take that criteria, and apply the buff as needed in the 15-20 range.
While it does still help in the 25 key range, it’s not balanced for the 25 key range. It’s balanced for the 20 range.
Again, you’re showing you’re not understanding balance break points.
Do you know how many people go to cooking classes dinner dates? Pay to make your own food?
If you don’t want to put forth the effort, don’t. It’s as simple as that. It’s like why I play feral. Until now, has been deemed “unplayable” for expansions. But it’s fun for me so I play it. And I do fairly well with it.
Some people just want the East orb to their end goal. And that’s fine. And for that, there’s the ability to reroll to the FoTM
