LOL, yes. I don’t know why they sent perfectly fine pvp gearing system we had into the void. No one that pvps enjoys the current situation of sweating all week doing pve, then maybe getting a queue sesh in.
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They tried this, but if anything it just seperated pve and pvp even more than it is now, we didn’t even need an addon to boot a pvp guy back then, we just simply inspected. And yes… pvpers were trying to get into pve groups with pvp gear.
pretty much this.
and unfortunately the current dev team is on record as stating that they think it’s ok to push people out of their comfort zone to acquire items.
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Except that’s sorta what I want? I don’t want M+ to be so lucrative, and their gear system to be so relatively sparse that they feel like it’s required to do M+/Mythic raids to be competitive in their content. Vice versa… I don’t want their gear systems to become so lucrative to combat this, that I’m then in their content to gear up for my raids.
So long as the gear is the same (just relying on stats, and now the same corruption rolls), if you want your best chance at actually getting geared, then you should be participating in both. And honestly… I hate PvP. And lots of PvPers hate PvE… Why are we incentivizing cross play? If you enjoy both… then you’ll play both.
So long as the paths aren’t separate, whichever is easiest and fastest to gear (M+ atm) will be the de facto gearing method for the season and not participating in that content instantly puts you at a handicap.
In some cases… both are required, pvp trinket is at least BiS for most of the dps specs even in the raid, not sure about healing or tanking.
Honestly, I don’t think literally any PvPer (aside from the PvE heroes doing PvP in BFA) really care if PvP and PvE are separate. We’d really prefer it that way, you know, like it essentially was for the last 12 years prior to BFA?
I do think it’s funny you say “they tried that” as if it wasn’t the standard way gear worked for every expansion before WoD, with WoD still having PvP gear being BiS in PvP with scaling on it. BFA and Legion are the only outliers.
Then why were pvpers constantly trying to get into my Garrosh pug runs?
You know… the last raid boss of MoP.
Who really cares…? I mean, randos trying to get into either side with the wrong gear isn’t really a problem worth scrapping the system over. Your anecdote is pretty irrelevant when looking at the big picture.
Especially since, you know, you can just not accept people with PvP gear and that you are ignoring the WoD system where PvP gear didn’t have less stat budget, but just lower ilvl. There wasn’t really any problem with PvPers doing entry PvE in PvP gear during WoD, so the problem you are imagining was already solved.
How do I do this without being able to see their gear? I said earlier I used the oqueue addon, it worked very similar to how premade group finder works now.
Prideful set was the right ilvl for Normal, and if anything, outgeared anything that dropped in Flex. Telling a pvper to “stack” is near impossible though which is why it was so much easier to exclude you guys from my groups… after I invited and inspected.
To this day I still trying to understand what was so appealing to pvpers with Garrosh, thought bringing it up would get me answers, but you just somehow took offense to something I said… just don’t know what. I honestly didn’t care for WoD… at all, since I barely played it.
Alright well you aren’t good at pvp either. Also you aren’t fire? You are arcane and not running the best essences. You do not know how to play this game lol
I thought my point was pretty clear. No, I’m not advocating for isolation. in fact I recommend running your own keys up in the post you quote. It is possible to be social without demanding other people give up their time and their effort (key) to please you. And that’s exactly what you seem to want here by eliminating the ability to evauluate pugs.
Except that it does. Before the IO addon, we used the IO website. Before that going back to at least Wrath when I started, we used addons, websites, the armory/inspecting, or even just “link achieve” to evaluate people. Its been a thing since pugging existed. The IO addon is just the latest in a long line of these things, and it isn’t toxic.
How can you claim your argument against something is valid when you can’t even accurately explain how that thing works. PVP doesn’t even work the way you’re saying. PVP Audit as an addon has existed for 5 years now. Other addons and websites likely exist too. So to claim it would “be the absolute end” of anyone is silly when it hasn’t been so far.
As for me complaining, no, I wouldn’t. I don’t PVP. I also very rarely pug my M+.
How do you IO people put up with being constantly judged? I don’t do hard content precisely because I want to avoid reading hissys when I screw up. Which I will. I’m playing on a very suboptimal machine, particle effects go off and kill my framerate.
But all that aside, doing a timed run with a bunch of people who only care how many times you’ve done it before is kind of self-defeating. Where would you even start? I never pvp’d with resilience for the same reason, losing to build up to something is a lousy way of doing things.
Timers trigger my anxiety so I’d never touch M+, so I can’t directly complain about IO because I’ll literally never have a use for it. I know it when I suck and it feels bad enough, I don’t need to be told so I stay away from all competitive play as a result. And I’m sure not the only one.
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I’m normally not a very secure person but in gaming I can get over it better. I know I have single handedly been responsible for more bricked keys than I have had hot lunches but I also have saved heaps too so it all evens out to me.
In my experience as long as you are genuinely trying most people are fine with that.
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That’s really all I’d need, for people to know that I at least made an effort. I’m strangely (for me) considering dipping my toe in once I get a new PC, I’ve been playing quite literally mechanically gimped for so many years I’m kind of hoping I may find I can play better than I think.
I used to smash 5 mans like it was my job way back in the day, it was my thing prior to transitioning to LFR (which I realize teaches very little, but it’s also the most mechanically forgiving so I kind of exiled myself there). Overall there’s no bridge from LFR obviously but with my prior experience (and I do read class guides, practice rotations, etc), it might not be a huge leap exactly to try just a +0 even.
Thanks for sharing, makes me feel like I might just do it! 
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No FFXIV wraps in you a giant save space were you failure will never be mention and instead others will just have to play better to over come your presence.
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I’ve screwed up. A lot. Anyone who does high keys has.
This is part of the learning process. Not just what to avoid, but how to recover quickly from mistakes.
I generally find that, unless it’s something extremely stupid (basic mechanics etc) the higher IO you climb the more forgiving people will be, even if there is an initial rage about it.
The whole reason we encourage people to build there score by doing low keys and gradually moving up is so that they can learn these basics in a more forgiving environment.
Some mechanics that don’t do much in low keys will one shot you in high keys, and if you work up slowly you will know these mechanics and be ready for them.
That’s why we like IO. Someone who has timed a 13 shrine is unlikely to tank my 15 shrine by dying to the first surging rush. Being able to see this info at a glance helps us select who we bring to our group when we pug.
Yes, there are out right jerks out there. But they tend to decrease the higher you climb.
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Thanks for the well thought out reply! This is all very heartening, and is starting to make more sense to me now, basically you can’t have someone who should be doing +1s coming to your +13, if I have that right.
It makes logical sense to keep people from wrecking your key because they didn’t care to push through all the keys themselves, which from what I gather is more or less what you guys are doing.
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No, you are not asking to remove raiderio, just ask for your addon, because it is a misuse of the game system and the advantage that this website gives.
I wish that your argument was not valid, but when you read the name of this emoticon, I realized that you better not take to another level of the disadvantage that gave in using Rogues for Shrud strategy, if so, I saw Shrud with Shrug thanks to you.
Fortunately, the novelty of season 4 helped them not to abuse too much of this strategy and the rogues are no longer necessary.
Pretty much. My highest keys right now are 17s (I’ve been at work on oil rigs the last 3 week’s so haven’t done any lately) and I wouldn’t even bother applying to a 20 key.
Guys like OP seem to think we exempt ourselves from these guidelines when in truth we follow them intently.
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Why does it not suprise me he was a Bullyhunter or wanting to rip off their “niche”
Here is maybe the least offensive video of Bullyhunters I could find for people who don’t know about them. Though I suggest searching youtube because there are a lot of great videos mocking this.
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