Baine Is Really Epic

[Etheldald-ragnaros (Etheldald)]

To me at least, the Alliance would also likely die in whatever agreement is reached, so i’ll need to get prepared for two.

then what about if we have at least a leader or two in each faction say “nah that is BS” and never agree to peace?

[Darrethy-wyrmrest-accord]

I don’t like that wording because that implies one of those groups might not be the Forsaken, and i’v had enough Calia and she isn’t even on screen yet.

[Zerde-sargeras (Zerde)]

I think that’s the primary, if not only thing, I agree with Treng and Yagarr about. If we MUST remove Sylvanas and put Saurfang/Thrall/whoever in her place then that person MUST continue to wage the war on the Alliance to it’s logical conclusion. My main problem with the honor Horde is not merely that I dislike the concept of honor, but that I view it as a potential way to make the Horde toothless.

The “logical conclusion” of Sylvanas war is the destruction of the Horde, one way or another. Assuming even if the Alliance was defeated we all know the Horde would end up too weak to deal with the new big bad that is just around the corner.

[Treng-wyrmrest-accord (Treng)]

The “logical conclusion” of Sylvanas war is the destruction of the Horde, one way or another. Assuming even if the Alliance was defeated we all know the Horde would end up too weak to deal with the new big bad that is just around the corner.

“We’ll be calling up the farmers next.”

[Etheldald-ragnaros (Etheldald)]

“We’ll be calling up the farmers next.”

and how that contradict his point? xD
even if the horde or the alliance wins, neither should able to stop the next world ending threat.

[Dotandplot-emerald-dream (Dotandplot)]

Baine does get a lot of undeserved hate. But that’s to be expected when 99% of the forums doesn’t understand how war works.

[Laeth-hakkar]

Magatha. Grimtotem.

[Desanvos-dalaran (Desanvos)]

Sure because betraying multiple Warchiefs to try and help the enemy is so epic.

Just like with warning Jaina, there is a very good chance this latest round is going to blow up in Baine’s face again, though likely with less real explosions this time.

---

Baine is also likely responsible for the Horde not having won the faction war back in Cataclysm since giving the Alliance and Kirin Tor warning gave them time to fortify, making the conventional invasion fail and giving Garrosh the concentration of forces he was looking for to use the Mana Bomb. If the Mana Bomb is never used since we won the conventional battle, Jaina then never has it to save the Alliance Fleet from being wiped out by Garrosh’s krakens.

[Hahahahahaha-grizzly-hills (Hahahahahaha)]

“Baine is really epic!” - Alliance players

[Kyiwani-khazgoroth (Kyiwani)]

Not the Horde I signed up to play either. I have no love for Sylvanas. I never had. This situation however is damned if you do and damned if you don’t. That is one of the main reasons I am not actually playing WoW. I just browse the story forums when I have some time to kill and keep up to date using it and WoWhead.

Honestly I can’t see how the Horde is salvageable at this point. Sylvanas staying in power doesn’t help in the slightest. However another 'Meh Honor" civil war lead by such lame characters is hardly going to make the Horde much better. Your trading a pile of poo for a pile of rancid food. It is still rubbish.

Rancid food is still food…but i see what you are driving at. I came back to play Zandalari, who i have had a major crush on since Pandaria.

But i have to disagree. Another civil war, as poor as it is, is better than what we have now.

And even if Sylvanas is removed, one way or another, the war will go on. I honestly think that story wise the Alliance needs to up the ante vs a post-Sylvanas Horde - have the Dark Irons drop a molten mountain on Thunder Bluff and the Void Elves infest it with Void tentacles. We will have our righteous war, and the Alliance can feel the pain of being the story punching bags for once.

[Jazia-sargeras (Jazia)]

the Alliance can feel the pain of being the story punching bags for once.

…

looks at the massive number of civilian casualties and land lost in furtherance of the story over the years

Yeah…

For once…

… because being the bad guy is the only way to get punched.

[anon95961490]

Actually my two characters with the most time investment are Horde!

continue to wage the war on the Alliance to it’s logical conclusion.

What is that? Remember bro they can’t delete one faction lol

[Kyiwani-khazgoroth (Kyiwani)]

the Alliance can feel the pain of being the story punching bags for once.

…

looks at the massive number of civilian casualties and land lost in furtherance of the story over the years

Yeah…

For once…

… because being the bad guy is the only way to get punched.

I feel you. But feel us - the seeds were sown in the Wrathgate and the Broken Front, and ever since Blizzard writers have been using us as a plot catalyst to further the conflict, writing our leaders as warmongering idiots.

I for once, do not enjoy being on the verge or during a civil war every other major patch. It’s getting old.

[Reallyhappy-dalaran (Reallyhappy)]

I for once, do not enjoy being on the verge or during a civil war every other major patch. It’s getting old.

I mean if there was actually any substance to the war beyond people running at each other and hitting each other with sticks it would be nice. Any Logic, any actual fronts. Currently it’s we want a battle to happen here, and make it flashy. How, Why? Those are unimportant, no one pays enough intention to the plot or setting to care! What do you think this is, an RPG?

[Jazia-sargeras (Jazia)]

the Alliance can feel the pain of being the story punching bags for once.

…

looks at the massive number of civilian casualties and land lost in furtherance of the story over the years

Yeah…

For once…

… because being the bad guy is the only way to get punched.

I feel you. But feel us - the seeds were sown in the Wrathgate and the Broken Front, and ever since Blizzard writers have been using us as a plot catalyst to further the conflict, writing our leaders as warmongering idiots.

I for once, do not enjoy being on the verge or during a civil war every other major patch. It’s getting old.

Ah.

So in fairness to the Horde player the Alliance should get whacked with the villain bat and start committing large scale atrocities as well as losing multiple cities and zones and large parts of the civilian population?

[Treng-wyrmrest-accord (Treng)]

Ah.

So in fairness to the Horde player the Alliance should get whacked with the villain bat and start committing large scale atrocities as well as losing multiple cities and zones and large parts of the civilian population ?

Yes.

I need me some moral highground about now.

[Jazia-sargeras (Jazia)]

Your story sucks, my story already sucks and the only thing that will make you happy is making my story suck even more?

Sorry.

No.

Be miserable.

[Syriyna-amanthul (Syriyna)]

“We’ll be calling up the farmers next.”

And both sides are saying the Horde is weeks away from defeat and that is before a potential. Yeah I don’t think the horde is in much of a better situation than the Alliance with its farmer thing if it is getting its butt kicked that much.

The idea that somehow the Horde will have a conflict within itself, weeks away from defeat by the Alliance and then somehow, without any McGuffin get out of jail free card, suddenly be able to fight its way back to even standing.

One of three things will happen:

1. The embodiment of all that is pure and good, High King Anduin Wrynn will take pity on us savages and forgive us while teaching us how to be good people.

2. The Alliance will be mauled so badly by a third party big bad that it will put the Horde on a more even footing, meaning the Horde will have owed its existence to being saved by the bad guys.

3. The Horde will surrender to the Alliance and they will benevolently oversee us to make sure we are well behaved in the future with Baine, Thrall and Saurfang, the Alliance approved leaders, making sure we behave ourselves.

The Alliance isn’t going to lose its moral highground. Blizzard just has no interest in doing so. Accepting that fact will lead to far less disappointment.

There is probably 2 major patches to go and they are going to heavily focus on N’zoth’s plans probably so I wouldn’t hold out hope that somehow the Horde is going to go back to being the Honor Horde and still get to fight the Alliance. That isn’t the role the Horde gets to play in faction conflicts, ever.

[Treng-wyrmrest-accord (Treng)]

And both sides are saying the Horde is weeks away from defeat

I’m not saying the Horde can win. I’m saying the Alliance can’t defeat whatever’s next either, so I don’t know why he brought up that the Horde can’t.

[Syriyna-amanthul (Syriyna)]

I’m not saying the Horde can win. I’m saying the Alliance can’t defeat whatever’s next either, so I don’t know why he brought up that the Horde can’t.

Again I wonder how the Horde, weeks from defeat, can fight a civil war inside itself and then somehow manage not to be weeks from defeat. That makes almost no sense.

Adding to that, such a set up basically does turn this whole faction conflict into a Horde story where the Alliance gets saddled with being window dressing to the actual events taking place. I don’t see that happening and I certainly don’t wish that on the Alliance playerbase.

Sylvanas is their antagonist this expansion as much if not more so than the Horde’s. They will be involved in her fate one way or the other or the entire expansion is basically one giant crapping on the Alliance for the sole purpose of Horde faction development. That isn’t any more ok than the horde getting villain batted and saddled with another evil warchief.