“Wrong. Broken. Falling Apart…just like the Horde.” - Highlord Saurfang
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Frankly the Tauren being enlightened-level peaceful was a thing BEFORE all the rest of this… stuff… came to WoW. They might have decided to make Baine warchief because they already had a character who fit their new philosophy, which is better than poofing a new character into being and having him suddenly run everything…
But I always wondered how the Tauren stay in the Horde when the Horde has the Forsaken. The Tauren should not be okay with ANYTHING the Forsaken do and IC-ly they would quit the Horde and go Alliance, or if they had power, tell the Horde to abandon the undead.
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I was making more of a reference to Anduin, but also how all the protagonist males are no longer what we consider as masculine.
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Most of them aren’t. Still out there in the game in much less pronounced forms but I do honestly understand some of those complaints.
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Thing is, it was the Tauren, through Magatha’s influence (as this was before vanilla and Magatha had not tried to take over Thunder Bluff) that got the forsaken INTO the Horde in the first place
I keep thinking this is the issue, but I would not say it is cause they don’t know what to do with him, but more they write the Horde Warchief as one extreme (Garrosh/Sylvanas) and think the only way to write the character they choose to oppose them as the extreme on the other end.
A lot of us know that you can have a character with backbone without being blood thirsty, but look at the writing at the times Baine did do all of these things. How much did it seem the style during those times was, indeed, “backbone=bloodthirsty”? at least as far as Horde writing?
Agreed, but I think some of the issue here is they also want to differentiate him from Cairn enough to be his own character and not “Cairne Jr.” though they could have done that by keeping his friendship with Anduin going, but both understanding that they might face each other on the battlefield or Baine recognizes that Anduin had nothing to do with the attcaks on Horde/Taurn or had made those choices out of necessity.
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Because the horde is full of losers. QED
Fortuna I’m jelly of your guild name.
Look.
At this point I dont know if you know how conversations work. And that makes we weary to continue it.
So lets just move on.
But they didnt
You give constant excuses for why Baine’s canon actions do not actual refeclt Baine. Its just the writers fault, etc.
But thats how it works.
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Lol I personally think Garrosh did worse, and people liked him for it.
The spotlight is genuinely a bad thing, look at Night Elves
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And I would not if the arguments were more “Baine is a badly written character” and less “baine is a bad character”
Look at it like this, Caire was written well, no questions about that, if they had not have killed him off, who is to say that the current hacks would not, in a way, make Cairne “Baine Sr.”? By the logic and such that you and others her use, that would make Cairne a “bad character”
I have seen Baine written well outside of what is shown in game, maybe not the best mind you, but in a way that shows he actually does care for his people and the Horde. Like the Short story where the Quillboar are attacking the water caravans and, Garrosh being the meat head he is, attacks the Quillboar in their home only to be saved by Baine who also makes it so the Quillboar have their own water supply again so they don’t need to attack the caravans.
I said it once, and I’ll say it again, Baine, and the Tauren in general, are hard to comprehend unless one can handle nuance and/or the gray area between extremes in both writing and reading.
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Lets trade him for the red space goats the alliance shouldnt have gotten
Name should be changed to Baine Pinkhoof. Another male character that has slowly been castrated.
At some point they become the same thing. Bad characters are bad because of bad writing.
Baine is a bad character.
Is it because of his writing? Sure. But at some point his writing IS who he is.
Nah. That is bad writing, I am dismissing it.
Or are only you allowed to decide what is bad writing and then dismiss it from the conversation?
Because writing that shows Baine caring for his people contradicts a bunch of the other writing and actions we have for Baine. Making that inconsistent. Or…bad writing.
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But that is what happens when different writers do the same character, It would be like saying Winnie the Pooh is a bad character due to the movie, Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey when most could argue he was a good one due to other movies/the cartoon/etc.And one who has seen only one or the other would be right from what they have seen, but those that have seen both would either see the inconsistences or, be like "x did him dirty:
“Knakk the Hack” can be consistent in his writing
“Molden Golden” can be consistent in hers
But you really should not expect them to be consistent with each other
This makes it so that it is actually up to Blizzard what is lore for the character and what is not, if Blizzard considers all writing to be “official” Lore, then Baine’s “lore” is all over the place,
He’s boring. But so is thrall, jaina and anduin.
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I know exactly how conversations work. You are very clear about the fact that you believe what ever opinion you have is rock solid fact and that everyone agrees with you. That’s nonsense but I understand you clearly.
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“Homogenized? No way, I like the ladies.” (Removed in Patch 9.1.5)
Baine is an ox now.
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wow 40 hearts for that baine bloodhoof oribos pic. not sure wether to be happy or sad.
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Ok.
So who gets to decide what lore and canon events we dismiss to make him a good character?
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I think as far as this game’s writers are concerned - and I do think modern culture influences this a lot…
backbone + aggressor + good guys = fine, but by their thinking
backbone + defending themselves + bad guys = evil.
And the modern culture I’m referring to is the extreme of ends justify means. If you’re on the side of righteousness there’s literally nothing you can do to the enemy that’s wrong or goes too far. But if you’re genuinely in the wrong, even defending yourself is too much.
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