Dear Blizzard,
Due to recent events, here are my thoughts on this topic.
Bad Luck Protection. If you want to give us BLP, that’s fine. Please consider giving this to both Raiders and M+ players.
Deterministic Gearing. If you want to give us some iteration on dinars, that’s fine. Due to precedents already set, however, these need to operate like dinars functioned in the past, i.e., a single-track item that can be upgraded all the way to mythic ilvl.
Neither. If you don’t want to do either of these things, that’s fine too. In this case though, I would advocate for another tuning pass on trinkets to bring up the underperforming ones and in the future, add more interesting items to M+.
However, what you did this time was tell us we would be getting dinars (deterministic gearing) back in January, then 3 months later gaslight us into thinking you had meant to give us BLP the whole time. This is disingenuous and not how you should be treating your player base.
In the future, please pick a path, stick with it and be up front with your players about what you are planning. Or don’t tell us anything before it’s ready.
Thank you.
No thanks. M+ drops hero gear infinitely. Its just a matter of time before you het your drop.
Raid doesnt have that.
That is all
After seeing a post about what they originally said when Dinars were coming back in the Renown track at first and how their intention was to not make it locked behind difficulties makes it really seem like there’s some kind of struggle or tug-of-war in the Development team where things can just not be agreed upon.
How else do we get to the point where stuff keeps constantly flip flopping on design/intention if you look at all the things that have been happening since roughly the start of Dragonflight until now as a good anchor point coughTankscough.
They already explained why these don’t work the same as filler season Dinars of the last couple expansions – and that’s totally reasonable.
WoW Players have become too entitled to max-ilvl gear without touching max-ilvl content.
That said, I do agree with concerns over the name choice. If it’s not the same system, don’t give it the same name. That has caused so much rage over the last couple weeks, when this whole thing would have been a PR Win if they never said anything and just came out with 11.1.5 announcing Bad Luck Protection for raid drops.
(Of course the reality is that it’s somewhere in the middle, because it IS power progression for players who don’t run Heroic Raids, but for Heroic and Mythic raiders it’s just BLP. That’s another problem, it should function the same across the board).
And then a few weeks into the season all of your progression for the rest of the season will come from a weekly loot box.
Correct. The fact m+ plateaus so fast is all the more reason for not needing BLP
If you’ve got a system where all of the progression is front loaded into the first few weeks of a season and then drops off, with the only player agency over character progression from then on being how many weekly dungeon they do in order to see another Remnant of Darkness, that’s bad game design.
There is NO good faith argument for allowing anyone who steps into LFR to get heroic raid BiS, or for effectively every mythic boss kill to have guaranteed 100% drops of everything that anyone could want, but for M+ players not to be able to bypass vault RNG for a week.
No thats called no lifing it lol
Mythic vault is our bone
Highest deterministic ilvl gear is raids bone
Agreed. Ive stated multiple times id rather have it locked to your current difficulty tracks.
But for them to be locked into Hero gear that they may or may not get is no different than Hero gear m+ players WILL get.
Just playing the game a few hours a week and running 8 dungeons is no-lifing now?
Mythic vault isn’t a bone, it’s objectively the singular method of character progression past a certain point relatively early in the season. You can’t blame players for just playing the game the way Blizzard made it.
*Have already gotten, meaning that there is an entire group of players who engage primarily or solely with what is supposed to be an end-game pillar who have no deterministic route towards character progression, while everyone else does.
After the cartel chips come out, mythic raid is now a myth track loot piñata. Every player in every raid group that kills OAB, Mug’Zee or Gally is 100% guaranteed to get exactly the drop they want, up to three times. That in itself is an immense change to how gearing works in this game, let alone LFR raiders having the same benefit for hero track items.
Again, there is NO good faith argument that it would somehow be more significant or detrimental than that for M+ players to get deterministic vault gear they already have access to for content they’re already doing.
Being 665 week 2? Yeah.
Key phrase: past a certian point. This is cherry picking. Devs have said that GV isnt meant as a gearing path. Treating it like such is quite folly. Its our bone they threw us for dealing with infinite scaling without increased gear drops.
Hero track is the progression path for m+
GV is not a progression pillar
Not really a loot pinata when youre limited on thr amount of gear you can acquire, and first having to defeat the bosses the loot drops from
Majority of mythic raiders arent gonna get to that point. “Loot piñata” lol
Infinite farm is guaranteed to give you your drop vs 1 chance per week for a limited time (however many weeks a season lasts for)
Its perfectly logical to think that way
Why am i able to farm Priory 80-160 times to get my trinket but raiders are limited to 20 for their loot?
It’s week 8. By the time cartel chips come out it will be week 11 or something like that. In any case, people who were already very experienced with M+ were already running 10s by week 2 in mostly S1 gear.
Cherry picking is pretending it’s week 2. It’s week 8.
Well, what they said and what they designed and implemented is at odds. It isn’t cherry picking to say that it becomes the primary and ONLY means of character progression for M+ players, because that is absolute, objective fact. That point has already been reached for the average M+ player, and for others it was reached much more quickly.
In fact, based on the systems in place, the real and only long-term gearing plan for M+ across a season is to start running 8 10s a week as early as possible so you maximize your chances of getting the drops that are going to be most beneficial to you. That’s it. That’s the progression path in M+.
Blizzard made that system, the players are just playing the game.
That is objectively not true in practice. If that is what Blizzard intended, the designs they implemented do not service that intent.
You’re not, you have like a 3/100 chance of getting it to drop from your vault.
Otherwise, according to your standards that M+ character progression goes to 665 hero and that’s it, the season already ended weeks ago for the AVERAGE M+ player.
Again, they’re just playing the game with the rules and resources they’ve been given so this isn’t about players being no-lifers or entitled gear addicts or any other moralistic and condescending way you want to blame the player for the game.
Except these pieces let raiders get myth pieces, not just hero. If it was hero for everyone, that’d be fine.
Let raids get infinite hero loot from grinding bosses on mythic difficulty, with only myth loot from the vault. Raid already has the most chances at myth pieces.
ALSO, you still have to farm Priory 80-160 times for your hero track trinket while every raid boss kill now has a 100% drop rate of whatever you want.
Let’s not be moving goalposts here. 8 is a long shot from first few.
You’re the one claiming first few weeks and not nearly middle of the season. This is historically about the time everyone starts plateauing anyway.
I mean it’s really not. We get infinite middle tier gear for middle tier difficulty.
It’s not. Crafted gear exists and goes beyond the hero track.
But more to the point, great vault still isn’t a gearing path. GV is just more BLP. The ONLY reason we get to go beyond Hero track is simply because the difficulty goes beyond hero track, beyond a scaling standpoint.
If we stopped at strictly hero track, then infinite scaling would be pointless.
Much like mythic raiders getting increased ilvl or getting their BiS items to drop to help them progress over walls, so to do M+ get the great vault for giving m+ chances to slowly progress up the scaling tree.
GV is supplemental, but not a gearing path on it’s own.
But it is. You have to do the content, and a required amount, in order for the GV to give you slots. You’re playing M+ to get the GV to activate. You can’t play the great vault. The requirements for it see to that.
Correct. M+ players goals are usually set aside from ilvl. Get portals, get X io score, aim for title. M+ is hardly: clear 10s until i’m max ilvl and then quit playing, because they don’t need max ilvl to be doing what they’re doing.
LFR raiders are getting Mythic pieces? This is news to me. And limiting Mythic raiders to hero pieces while everyone else is getting a bump up isn’t exactly fair to anyone either. Mythic raiders are putting in the work, they should receive their mythic pieces if everyone is getting free gear. Plus they’re restricted to bosses killed. If they haven’t progressed to the point of killing the boss that has their loot they want, the system does them no good.
Eh that doesn’t sound fun either. I came up with an idea that had allowed raiders to be able to spam raids for the gear too, while keeping mythic “Special” for blizzard. Think it was Heroic and below lose their raid lockout, but mythic keeps it.
That way mythic raiders can still feel special.
Yeah? Vexie is dropping Jastor Diamond huh? Also more news that wasn’t given out.
Bro, do you need a calendar? I’m not moving goalposts, I’m stating IT’S CURRENTLY WEEK 8. You’re arguing as if I’m advocating for a week 2 dinar when I’m not at all.
If it’s the only place you can get upgrades to continue your character progression, it’s your gearing path. What other gearing path do you have?
Nah, they don’t. They’re not bound to past decisions, there is no reasonable appeal to tradition in something like this. They should just make what they feel like is the best decision for the game without worrying about stuff like that.
Never saw Tyrstone in over 50 runs of DOTI. Why waste my time?
Correct. You claimed all of m+ progression was done in the first few weeks. This is week 8 and people are still progressing. You are indeed advocating for week 2 dinars:
You’re claiming youre maxed out by week 2-3 and want your BLP to continue on.
Mythic raiding.
Depends on what you consider a waste.
A waste is going to raid every week, never getting your drop from the bosses nor in the vault. m+ is simply a game of attrition. Eventually it will drop. Same can’t be said for raids due to time limit but loot lockout.
Honestly I’ve always just wanted PvP-only versions of trinkets just to try them out and see if they’d be better/funner than the boring stat increase ones. Seriously just put em in for Conquest points, don’t let them work in PvE.
But this is just never going to happen. I have no illusions here. It’s really really disappointing, but that’s how it is.
If you want Dinars as they were in DF Season 4, then we’ll be getting none as there is no season-4 planned for TWW. Careful what you ask for.
This is mid-season, not end-of-season, for TWW so despite using the term “Dinars” they knew all along that they were not going to give the kind of “free Mythics that will be replaced shortly when the new expansion launches” kind of rewards, especially when they’re on a compressed schedule that will be skipping that S4 “lull” period (we’re going from TWW S3 right into Midnight).
Read carefully the explanation below… if it doesn’t make sense to you, then I think you just want Mythic Raid gear without putting in Mythic Raid effort. It is NOT S4, there will be no S4, we were never getting Dinars… Cartel Chips are BLP not a post-season give-away.